"Full of Milfs and their prams" - my supposedly feminist friend

[Mummy1608]

This thread is just a rant and cry for sympathy I suppose!

Out of all my female friends, I'm the only one who's had a baby. We would all call ourselves feminists, and all have decent jobs (what you could call "careers"). But I'm so upset that I've begin to notice little scornful digs about mothers in their conversations (well, from one friend ar least). There's this subtle hint that it's not feminist to become a mother. There's also raised eyebrows that I've gone part time in my main job, which I've done partly because I'm still breastfeeding.

Aibu, or is it actually pretty misogynist to use slurs like Milf? How is a mother any less worthy than a woman who isn't a mother? And yeah, I'm frequently to be seen pushing a pram in my neighbourhood, how is that something to be ashamed of...?

Has anyone else experienced this?

[CheekyMaw]

*feminists

[CheekyMaw]

Yeah I got this when my kids' were younger.Feminism is just for certain women in their eyes. The "worthy" women. They aren't that bright and plain nasty. Keep your "friend" at a distance, OP. The strongest, feistist feminism I know are mums.
Don't worry OP, once the ageing process kicks in ,they will realise ALL women get shafted at some point and will realise how mean they have been .

[FrancescaContini]

@WaltzingToWalsingham

I suspect your friend is secretly jealous of you.

Yep

[dropitlikeitsloth]

I’ve heard it and seen it lots, on social media ‘Brad Pitt is a dilf’ for example. Not as common as milf but it’s something I guess some women have taken from milf and made their own.

Maybe that’s a good thing, retaking the word etc. who knows

[BlameItOnTheBlackStar]

DILFs is common?!

[dropitlikeitsloth]

I'd like to fuck her is V male and has sort of aggressive feelings attached. Male objectification. Not I fancy her. I'd like to fuck her.

I do agree but plenty of women call men Dilfs (not me but I know it’s common for women to say) so women can be like this too.

[crunchermuncher]

I know this is a 'zombie thread' but I think it's covered some important issues that are worth (re) examining.

[crunchermuncher]

@EightWheelGirl

10 months later they’ll be sitting on the sofa with a gently weeping csection scar/episiotomy, crying having not slept in 340 hours, as their besuited partner dashes out the door to his OLD LIFE, and she realises that all she has to do is laundry and try and tidy.

But for me work is just what facilitates life. Maybe I’m being naive but why can’t you still go to museums and have a social life etc? Of course you’ll have less time for yourself with kids, but presumably that’s also the case for the bloke unless he’s swanning off every weekend with the lads which most decent blokes I know aren’t.

My sister has more of a social life now she has kids. She still gets a babysitter in and goes out for meals etc on the weekend, but she also meets up with her friends in the week while the kids are at school, which she couldn’t do when she was working full time.

I'm guessing from your reply that you don't have kids?

The point is that motherhood really is quite the eye opener when it comes to realising that sexism is alive and well and you, mummy, are on the receiving end of it!

Having kids takes a physical toll on women that men never experience. It has a knock on effect in all areas of life.

Of course men can stay home with the children (like my partner) but most don't, and many couples don't have the choice due to the way our society is organised.

I'm not sure whether this is what you meant but your post seems to suggest your sister is having a lovely doss working part time and going out with her friends. The reality is she's probably dealing with family admin and children all evening, during the hours when pre children she could have been relaxing. Implying that women can have it all and if we don't, it's our own fault perpetuates the inequality.

[girafferafferaffe]

@fluoropostit I love this reply so much 💜

[Tommika]

But late here.
MILF is not something for women to call each other, and it’s usage has changed
It didn’t mean that a woman has given birth so is then worth having sex with - surely you would like to or not irrespective of their parentage status

Back in the 80s it was for hormonal teenage boys - your friends mother.

A woman who uses the term hopefully doesn’t know what it means
A man who uses the term is an idiot
A hormonal teen who uses it is a hormonal teen

[Mummy1608]

Wow this old thread of mine came back! Thank you guys I really enjoyed re-reading it, there's ideas here I have to keep reminding myself. And @fluoropostit you're so right, I wish I knew you and some of these other commenters IRL!

[CheeseMmmm]

Fyi everyone this is a zombie thread reanimated by presumably teenage boy who got instant deletion

[EightWheelGirl]

10 months later they’ll be sitting on the sofa with a gently weeping csection scar/episiotomy, crying having not slept in 340 hours, as their besuited partner dashes out the door to his OLD LIFE, and she realises that all she has to do is laundry and try and tidy.

But for me work is just what facilitates life. Maybe I’m being naive but why can’t you still go to museums and have a social life etc? Of course you’ll have less time for yourself with kids, but presumably that’s also the case for the bloke unless he’s swanning off every weekend with the lads which most decent blokes I know aren’t.

My sister has more of a social life now she has kids. She still gets a babysitter in and goes out for meals etc on the weekend, but she also meets up with her friends in the week while the kids are at school, which she couldn’t do when she was working full time.

[LobsterNapkin]

Boy, this is an old thread.

But the fact is lots of people, women as much as men, maybe even more, don't respect care work or domestic work. They think even the women they hire to care for their kids are kind of lame, they don't have a real carer, after all. Women who stay home clearly are losers.

Their feminism is really just class snobbery and unthinking socially expected slogans.

[fluoropostit]

Tbh we discussed this a lot when we were early thirties and having kids. There was a generation (when I say that I mean like, four/five years younger) who were coming up behind us who were super ambitious, mega successful, looking at us who had become boring old mummies and champing at the bit wanting our jobs. We were probably those people in our turn!

I think modern society and conventional corporate style office careers set women up so as they approach the end of their twenties and the beginning of their thirties, they are NAILING IT. They’re super successful at work, yet still going out to have fun with friends three nights a week, and maybe to the theatre or an art museum (I was in london so v typical). They’re assertive and authoritative and manage a team, but still ‘hot’ and can afford blow drys and nails being done and discussions about blockchain currency and what instagrammable holiday to take next. They bought a flat! They start their pension! They have a passable boyfriend who they are very slightly more successful than! The guys at work are still super nice and deferential to them and they think it’s because they’re so naturally charismatic (hint, it’s because they’re still ‘fuckable’, but of course they’ll only realise that later). Now they’re having a wedding! Fuck me, they’re really WINNING at this game called life, aren’t they? Now they’re going to tick that last box called ‘have a baby’, which given that they’re so awesome at just firing through life’s to do list, will be easy. Probably breathing it out via hypnobirth then quietly sitting around playing with some wooden toys in non toxic paint. Not like boring old Mary who staggers in for her KIT dayswith her roots needing done and a slight tummy looking shellshocked.

10 months later they’ll be sitting on the sofa with a gently weeping csection scar/episiotomy, crying having not slept in 340 hours, as their besuited partner dashes out the door to his OLD LIFE, and she realises that all she has to do is laundry and try and tidy.

It’s a fucker all right!

OP you have nailed some of the issues about internalised sexism completely. I would love to discuss this more but I have to take my blessings to the local stinking pool to shout ‘no NOT into the puddle! Put your feet IN THE PANTS, IN THE PANTS! Get IN the POOL/SHOWER/CHANGING ROOM/CAR/HOUSE’ rather than getting ready in a leisurely way for my meetup with friends later*.

*After about 8 years you are allowed out to see your friends again, which is why you often see groups of late 30s/early 40s women out having lunch/dinner, getting lightly (or heavily!) pissed and laughing RAUCOUSLY. They survived! And Charlotte the sales director who was so scathing about unambitious women got made redundant anyway! Because The Man gives as little a shit about her as it does about them. HURRAH!

[Strawing]

@NiceGerbil

I've only heard men say MILF.

anyone who refers to another woman as

Mother I'd like to fuck

Is horrible.

And it doesn't even make sense. Presumably your friend doesn't want to fuck them?

What is she even trying to say ??!!

Yes, I’d be primarily wondering whether she usually chucks around acronyms she doesn’t understand…?

[crunchermuncher]

I think it's probably deeper than 'feminists want to work.
Possibly because male and female carers are seen differently. Men having a career is normal as normal, 'it's what they do'. Women have generally had to work twice as hard for the same career success as men. You've got to want it, be driven, especially if you also have kids. Not surprising it's hard to put that down when the time comes if you've fought hard for it, and made sacrifices/ taken criticism that men aren't expected to. It costs women a lot more to have a career and mothers even more.

[EightWheelGirl]

I don't really get the modern association of feminism with careers. I mean, I understand the independence/'not relying on a man' aspect, but for many feminists the career seems to hold some kind of personal significance rather than just being a means to an end like for most men.

Most of my male friends would love to retire early but feminists seem to want to work

[BlameItOnTheBlackStar]

If you're a MILF maybe she's a WILTSFOT

A Woman I'd Like To Say Fuck Off To.

[OpenTheBloodyWindow]

Also, being generous to your friends she possibly sees MILF or yummy mummy as sort of compliments, ie attractive and also mothers. I think a lot of society sees it in this way, a slight incredulity that a woman has become a mum but is still attractive or sexy, shock horror and see it as complimentary to comment on that

[ErrolTheDragon]

Much easier to be a fluffy ‘intersectional’ feminist.

It's the elephant in the room of 'intersectional feminism' , isn't it? The intersection with being a carer. The intersection with the physical realities of bearing and nurturing a child. The intersectionalists by and large seem to blithely ignore the biggest and most fundamental axes , and do not fully engage with structural sexism.

[OpenTheBloodyWindow]

This is a great thread, although I'm sorry about your friends OP.

Women should be building each other up, supporting each other in our choices and remembering that not everything in life is truly a free choice.

I do know a lot of lovely women who can be supportive, kind, feminist etc but only of those who fit into their narrow view of what is acceptable. Women are too diverse and interesting to all meet their criteria, and therefore they are judgemental and sometimes cruel about the others.

This thread is a great reminder that we need to be here for one another and teach our children (if we have them) to do the same

[merrymouse]

It's only since I became a mum and after my traumatic childbirth experience that I've begun to truly realise this. So it's kind of understandable (I guess) that my friend doesn't see it this way (yet?)

It’s really difficult to understand what is involved in being a mother until you actually go through it yourself. None of my friends had had children before I had my first, and I had worked in environments that were either very young or male dominated, so I only knew 2 or 3 people who had even gone on maternity leave. They might as well have decided to climb Everest or join a religious order.

Shamefully, I honestly joked about going on ‘maternity holiday’. I had a very rude awakening.

A couple of decades later, most of my peer group have had children and the view looks very different.

I also think it can be difficult to be made aware of the fact that pregnancy and having children really does have an impact and women need specific rights and services that men don’t. Easier to live in denial than be an awkward feminist.

Much easier to be a fluffy ‘intersectional’ feminist.