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Related: Lockdown Learning, discuss home schooling during lockdown.

MNHQ have commented on this thread

8th Dec 6pm press conference
687

PurpleDaisies · 08/12/2021 17:14

Whitty
Vallance
Johnson

I wonder what they’ll say.

OP's posts:
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Itisasecret · 09/12/2021 08:39

The whole Arthur issue, lockdown isn’t to blame. It’s the Tory govt and anyone who voted for them over the past 11 years.

They made no secrets of their plans to cut social care/judiciary/police/educational funding. Whilst reducing early help and closing all the sure start centres. Their so called enquiry really doesn’t need to go past the front door of 10 Downing Street.

The threshold for referral to SC is so high because the service is overstretched. An uncomfortable fact much like the fact we’ve used our children for herd immunity. Possibly (or not) storing up long term health complications. We don’t know but we’ve done it anyway. Much like many people talking about Arthur, voted for the policies which have put children like him at risk.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:38

[quote TheVampiresWife]@rrhuth While I completely agree that provision for DA help is dire in the UK, it's an absolute fact that if victims are left alone with their abusers for months on end violence will increase. It would be true even if provision was excellent.

Have you ever lived with a manipulative, violent partner? Can you imagine how they might use lockdown as an opportunity to increase their campaign of abuse? Many abusers forbid victims from seeing friends or family so they can continue their abuse away from what they see as prying eyes. Lockdown is a perfect way to do just that.

Yes, provision needs to improve. But it hasn't, and won't anytime soon. It's not 'false choice' - this is the situation we're in. Leave victims of abuse alone with their abusers and the abuse will worsen. Add to that the fact that many victims will have felt completely isolated from friends, family or channels of 'official' help and it's a recipe for disaster.

Many victims feel unable to seek help anyway. For people like them, no amount of extra provision will help. Not being shut up for months with the person terrorising them, however, might.[/quote]
This post is just hand wringing.

We could improve domestic violence provision tomorrow and more cuts are being made THIS YEAR.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 08:38

@rrhuth

I phrased that clumsily because we are all anti-lockdown at heart! - I mean those who want to do nothing about covid. They whine 'won't someone think of the children' but they don't really give a shit.

What a gross post - that line trotted out.

Yes I’m sure you don’t think about that at all.
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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:37

@MarshaBradyo

Anyone who backs more lockdown is ok with the damage.

I’m not so I can’t.

I am not OK with any damage. And no one backs more lockdown.

I have never voted for a perty who would cut vital services for women and children. I will take no lectures from anyone who voted Tory - if you did you voted for cuts to refuges and children's services. If you ever voted for that, you have no right to moan about domestic violence or harm to children because you chose to increase it.
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TheVampiresWife · 09/12/2021 08:36

@rrhuth While I completely agree that provision for DA help is dire in the UK, it's an absolute fact that if victims are left alone with their abusers for months on end violence will increase. It would be true even if provision was excellent.

Have you ever lived with a manipulative, violent partner? Can you imagine how they might use lockdown as an opportunity to increase their campaign of abuse? Many abusers forbid victims from seeing friends or family so they can continue their abuse away from what they see as prying eyes. Lockdown is a perfect way to do just that.

Yes, provision needs to improve. But it hasn't, and won't anytime soon. It's not 'false choice' - this is the situation we're in. Leave victims of abuse alone with their abusers and the abuse will worsen. Add to that the fact that many victims will have felt completely isolated from friends, family or channels of 'official' help and it's a recipe for disaster.

Many victims feel unable to seek help anyway. For people like them, no amount of extra provision will help. Not being shut up for months with the person terrorising them, however, might.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 08:35

I felt differently before but the harm is accumulative and we have vaccines.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:34

I phrased that clumsily because we are all anti-lockdown at heart! - I mean those who want to do nothing about covid. They whine 'won't someone think of the children' but they don't really give a shit.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 08:34

Anyone who backs more lockdown is ok with the damage.

I’m not so I can’t.

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Itisasecret · 09/12/2021 08:34

@rrhuth

The reality is lockdown makes it worse which has turned into a convenient excuse for anti-lockdown types.

Anyone who has voted Tory in the last eleven years didn't give a shit about domestic violence or child neglect - they have cut all necessary services brutally. No point wringing your hands now.

This.
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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:32

The reality is lockdown makes it worse which has turned into a convenient excuse for anti-lockdown types.

Anyone who has voted Tory in the last eleven years didn't give a shit about domestic violence or child neglect - they have cut all necessary services brutally. No point wringing your hands now.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 08:29

@toomuchlaundry

Any increase is absolutely horrific, but it is also horrific that we should be relying on schools to be the safe havens for children who have horrendous home lives. What about the evenings, weekends, holidays? Children shouldn’t be in these positions full-stop. Can’t imagine a life where you only have safety for 7 hours a day, term time only.

It’s not lockdown that carried out the violence, it is the parents/partners.

The reality is lockdown makes it worse.
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toomuchlaundry · 09/12/2021 08:25

Any increase is absolutely horrific, but it is also horrific that we should be relying on schools to be the safe havens for children who have horrendous home lives. What about the evenings, weekends, holidays? Children shouldn’t be in these positions full-stop. Can’t imagine a life where you only have safety for 7 hours a day, term time only.

It’s not lockdown that carried out the violence, it is the parents/partners.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:20

@TheVampiresWife

Let's not forget the huge increase in domestic violence during lockdown, either. Calls to the NDAH went up by over 60% - and that's just the victims who felt able to seek help. There will be many thousands more who did not. And there will be tens of thousands of children involved, too.

We can never, ever allow this to happen again. Protecting groups of vulnerable people from illness while other vulnerable groups at left to suffer abuse, violence and worse is completely unacceptable. I say this as someone who is CEV and a DV survivor. I can't speak for everyone obviously but if I had to choose between taking my chances with covid and months locked in my home with my abuser I know which I'd pick.

This presentation of a false choice really pisses me off - if we were a country with a functioning system additional support would have been put into vital services to address these issues. We can not seriously be saying 'we shoudl have let hundreds of thousands of people die from Covd during wave 1 because the government refused to invest in other vital services'.

The UK has got almost broken public services, especially in terms of refuge places etc - due to the Tory party and their voters being happy to see services cut.

I categorically refuse to choose between more domestic violence or more covid deaths. Sort both things out. And maybe, just maybe, if there had not been eleven years of grotesque cuts to children's services, social services, women's services, drugs services, alcohol services, mental health services, police services, justice services, probation services, prison services - maybe the numbers of people stuck in their homes in terrible situations would have been drastically lower when lockdown came.

You only have to look at what has happened with catch up funding in education - the UK budget for that is pathetic compared to the US, to the NL. The UK state is broken and the lockdown was not the cause of that. The Tory party is the cause of that.
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bordermidgebite · 09/12/2021 08:17

The violence is horrific

In absolute terms though if it's a child every 2 weeks then a 20% increase is less than 6 children


How many children have died of covid ? How many more children will be placed in dangerous situations having lost parents to covid ?

So difficult

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Happypootle · 09/12/2021 08:11

herecomesthsun a 20% increase in child abuse is a pretty horrific statistic though, if true? I am sure the enquiry triggered by the Arthur Labinjo Hughes case will have a lot to say about the impact of lockdown on child safety. We will have to disagree on it for now.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 08:10

We can never, ever allow this to happen again.

I was behind initial action but I agree. There’s no mistake this hits children hard.

Loss of line of sight through usual channels also meant many referrals were missed.

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TheVampiresWife · 09/12/2021 08:04

Let's not forget the huge increase in domestic violence during lockdown, either. Calls to the NDAH went up by over 60% - and that's just the victims who felt able to seek help. There will be many thousands more who did not. And there will be tens of thousands of children involved, too.

We can never, ever allow this to happen again. Protecting groups of vulnerable people from illness while other vulnerable groups at left to suffer abuse, violence and worse is completely unacceptable. I say this as someone who is CEV and a DV survivor. I can't speak for everyone obviously but if I had to choose between taking my chances with covid and months locked in my home with my abuser I know which I'd pick.

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 07:51

[quote Happypootle]**@herecomesthsun* your post about Arthur I find distasteful. You are right that there are child murders outside of lockdown. However Arthur's* murder specifically occurred due to lthe circumstances of lockdown, lack of grandparents access/ threatened arrest etc. this was stated in court. Lockdown vastly increases risk factors for children in abusive homes.[/quote]
I'm sorry that you fid the facts distasteful. But the "vas"t majority of these cases would have happened regardless of lockdown, going by the figures, unfortunately.

Lockdown increased the estimated figures of child abuse by 20% which was a wholly unwanted consequence of course, but suggests that the "vast" majority would have happened anyway.

And one of the reasons for lockdown was precisely to protect the grandparents of these children, who as you rightly say are of enormous importance in their lives.

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Happypootle · 09/12/2021 07:15

@PAFMO I'm not talking as if I knew him personally although perhaps I know more than most about the case as it is very local to me. My point stands.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 06:10

Because ultimately that's what the choice to lockdown or not is. Which groups of vulnerable and which competing interests do you prioritise. The problem is a general failure to understand that this is the basis decisions have to be made on.

Exactly. The huge problem and potential damage is there as much as people might want to wave it away.

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PAFMO · 09/12/2021 05:44

[quote Happypootle]**@herecomesthsun* your post about Arthur I find distasteful. You are right that there are child murders outside of lockdown. However Arthur's* murder specifically occurred due to lthe circumstances of lockdown, lack of grandparents access/ threatened arrest etc. this was stated in court. Lockdown vastly increases risk factors for children in abusive homes.[/quote]
Any post talking about Arthur Labinjo-Hughes as if they knew him personally is far more distasteful, tbf.

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Noeuf · 09/12/2021 05:32

Thank you - seems a bit mad I don’t think much is going to stop this, I’m losing sight of why we are trying really.

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MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 09/12/2021 01:08

@rrhuth

Why have so many people who have already had two jabs turned into anti-vax batshit types now?

I was wondering that
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Quartz2208 · 08/12/2021 22:55

I think a lot of our reaction though is because we simply do not trust the Government. And I think the party simply underlines that. Doing it on the same day it came out (having previously said there was no going back) causes the panic.

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BewareTheLibrarians · 08/12/2021 22:44

@Itisasecret That sounds awful, I'm sorry Flowers At least in secondary we have masks in corridors, but at primary you really are thrown under the bus. And the situation with supply is awful too for the kids - they're aware enough to be worried about their teachers if the teachers are off long term (even if they're off for a day it throws them!). And I can't even imagine who is more stressed - the teachers off long term sick or the staff having to cover. Both of them are horrible, stressful positions to be in.

Absolutely agree with you that herd immunity through children is despicable. DS was in year 6 when he caught covid. He's now in year 8 and still has heart problems and really painful throat/tonsil complications, both due to covid. He was perfectly healthy before, no long term conditions to "blame" the severity on, just random shitty luck. To think of any other kid having to go through that because people believe "covid doesn't affect kids" is sickening. Or that long covid in kids is just "anxious parents". It soon becomes very clear who doesn't actually give a shit about kids and just wants their life back to normal.

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