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Related: Lockdown Learning, discuss home schooling during lockdown.

MNHQ have commented on this thread

8th Dec 6pm press conference
687

PurpleDaisies · 08/12/2021 17:14

Whitty
Vallance
Johnson

I wonder what they’ll say.

OP's posts:
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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 09:07

@Happypootle

herecomesthsun I am not a 'pile the bodies high' type either...I don't know any of those.

It is an alleged quote from Boris Johnson. The context was that he would rather ignore scientific advice for a circuit breaker and plug on, watching the case rates and death totals mount up, for the sake of business, the economy etc.

It is possible that a circuit breaker approach would have meant a shorter overall time spent in lockdown (presumably the less time the better for children and children at risk of abuse).

It is not in children's interests either to have NHS services collapsing under the strain of an uncontrolled pandemic and this would risk further additional deaths in itself.
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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 09:07

Many have made huge sacrifices for one vulnerable group for nearly two years

Now with vaccines and increasing damage - some extreme - we need to swing to protecting a very vulnerable group that has been de-prioritised

Not everyone will agree and won’t want that, but I very much hope we re prioritise them as a group.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 09:05

@Happypootle

rruth I will happily listen to different opinions but I do dislike the way you conflate lockdown views with party politics. That is very simplistic and also inaccurate. I am a lifelong labour voter. I absolutely agree that public services have been decimated by the tories. But the lockdown thing is a separate issue because not only the rules in place but also the 'project fear' aspect prevented people from both seeking help and providing it. You will find many on the left who oppose strong lockdowns (I work with lots of them) because they have seen the damage caused. It's not necessarily outright abuse but poverty, misery, neglect, lack of access to education. I believe if we need further measures to tackle covid these should never again include banning family members from visiting each other, frontline services working from home, or schools being closed to most children. I don't believe any of those things should ever be reinstated and I am not a tory and never will be.

I am clearly not talking about you then - I am talking about people who do not see the root cause of the issues we face as being the long term under investment in services, and who claim to care about children whilst voting for cuts to the services they need. And then who wring hands about lockdown tragedies, as if only the additional problems caused by lockdown are tragedies, but the ongoing, year-on-year misery the cuts caused is something we were all fine with.
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toomuchlaundry · 09/12/2021 09:04

With so many cuts to services, schools have had to take on so much more when it comes to child welfare. This is not right either.

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Waxonwaxoff0 · 09/12/2021 09:03

@herecomesthsun

It's interesting that so much has been made of the mental health of children/ domestic violence issues etc- in the context of opposing restrictions which people find unpalatable for other, completely unrelated reasons.

Often - and I am not saying this pertains to anyone on this thread- the newfound champions of mental health and abused children etc have not done anything at all prior that involved effort and/or financial input to help these causes.

So it looks like a pretext, as though these individuals are using human suffering as an easy argument to further their own interests.

Not saying, of course, that anyone on this thread is doing this.

But I can understand the origin of some of the questioning responses to this line of thought.

Could say the same about people suddenly caring about CEV people to be fair.
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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 09:02

They voted to make him party leader and they have followed him so far.

He hasn't exactly been deceiving anyone about his personality and his modus operandi, has he?

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Happypootle · 09/12/2021 09:02

herecomesthsun I am not a 'pile the bodies high' type either...I don't know any of those.

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vera99 · 09/12/2021 09:00

"It's so difficult to extrapolate where truth lies, because trust is completely broken down"

Ex-attorney general Dominic Grieve asks if Tory MPs will keep putting up with a PM "not fit for office"

Boris Johnson has apologised for video about No 10 party

twitter.com/i/status/1468605552217706505

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churchofthepoisonmind · 09/12/2021 09:00

Anybody with who supported lockdowns cannot genuinely profess to care about the poor and working classes. I live in a deprived area and have seen the impacts these policies have had on local small businesses, sole traders etc. Absolutely nobody I know is in favour of them. They are a stoical lot around here would rather take their chances with a disease which (repeat for the 1000th time) mainly targets primarily the elderly and vulnerable.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:58

[quote TheVampiresWife]@rrhuth as I've said, I have personal reasons for my position, too.

My point has nothing to do with any high profile case. It has to do with the shocking statistics regarding the increase of DA in lockdowns.

Please stop assuming people on this thread voted Tory. I'm a lifelong Labour member (disillusioned at the moment but that's another thread).

And it's not a 'covid position' (?!), it's an 'I'm concerned about the safety of victims of domestic abuse during lockdowns' position.[/quote]
I am not assuming YOU voted Conservative. I am not interested in how you personally voted.

I am saying it is not as simple as 'if we avoid lockdown all will be fine'.

Lockdown was necessary, it could be necessary again, and if we want to avoid a situation where a future lockdown causes a spike in domestic violence or in-home child abuse - we need to get something in place which requires proper preparation and investment. Because you can't allow hundreds of thousands of people to die because you don't have robust/funded systems in place to protect the vulnerable, can you?

My point is - anyone who does not support wholesale investment in the services we need can stop pretending they care.

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Octavia174 · 09/12/2021 08:57

@rrhuth One refuge charity alone turned down 700 calls for help from DV victims last year. 4 out of 5 migrant women get refused help.

The Tories have cut funding to local councils and hence councils have to make cuts, refuges, social work, childrens services, social care.

What the fuck did tory voters think Austerity was? Yet still you all kept voting for it.. because it didn't affect you, so you didn't care.

but now worried that CV restrictions might affect their party/holiday plans, they scream "....but think of the women!"

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 08:56

It's interesting that so much has been made of the mental health of children/ domestic violence issues etc- in the context of opposing restrictions which people find unpalatable for other, completely unrelated reasons.

Often - and I am not saying this pertains to anyone on this thread- the newfound champions of mental health and abused children etc have not done anything at all prior that involved effort and/or financial input to help these causes.

So it looks like a pretext, as though these individuals are using human suffering as an easy argument to further their own interests.

Not saying, of course, that anyone on this thread is doing this.

But I can understand the origin of some of the questioning responses to this line of thought.

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toomuchlaundry · 09/12/2021 08:56

I don’t remember as many posts about vulnerable children pre-COVID as there were during lockdown. But many of those children were vulnerable pre-COVID.

I do remember quite a few posts during lockdown from furious parents when teachers were trying to phone them or even do doorstep visits, and they were complaining about invasion of privacy and refusing to pick up calls from withheld numbers (teachers mainly using their own phones to make the calls). So many refused to accept that these were safeguarding calls and schools were doing their utmost in difficult circumstances to try and connect with all families and check that children were okay (or to give hope to vulnerable children that someone out there cared about them). Wonder if these parents are also the ones posting on here saying we must think about the vulnerable children.

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Happypootle · 09/12/2021 08:54

rruth I will happily listen to different opinions but I do dislike the way you conflate lockdown views with party politics. That is very simplistic and also inaccurate. I am a lifelong labour voter. I absolutely agree that public services have been decimated by the tories. But the lockdown thing is a separate issue because not only the rules in place but also the 'project fear' aspect prevented people from both seeking help and providing it. You will find many on the left who oppose strong lockdowns (I work with lots of them) because they have seen the damage caused. It's not necessarily outright abuse but poverty, misery, neglect, lack of access to education. I believe if we need further measures to tackle covid these should never again include banning family members from visiting each other, frontline services working from home, or schools being closed to most children. I don't believe any of those things should ever be reinstated and I am not a tory and never will be.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:53

[quote TheVampiresWife]@rrhuth why are you so convinced that everyone on this thread voted Conservative?![/quote]
I am not convinced of any such thing.

I am certain there are many (in the country and on any forum) who vote for cuts to children's services whilst claiming to care about children.

And these days there are many who use their concern for children as justification for not tackling covid.

I hope we never have another lockdown, but if you are happy with the state of children's situations pre-lockdown and only bothered about the extra percentage that lockdown caused, that makes no sense to me.

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TheVampiresWife · 09/12/2021 08:51

@rrhuth as I've said, I have personal reasons for my position, too.

My point has nothing to do with any high profile case. It has to do with the shocking statistics regarding the increase of DA in lockdowns.

Please stop assuming people on this thread voted Tory. I'm a lifelong Labour member (disillusioned at the moment but that's another thread).

And it's not a 'covid position' (?!), it's an 'I'm concerned about the safety of victims of domestic abuse during lockdowns' position.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:47

@TheVampiresWife

This post is just hand wringing

Nice way to dismiss someone's concerns.

I expect you consider yourself to be a caring, empathetic person, don't you? Hmm

Did you read the link I posted?

I can be but I am at the moment angry at the number of people who 'care' when there is a high profile case, or when it suits their covid position, but do not care enough to vote for the things that would help children in ongoing terrible situations.

I have some personal reasons for finding this very anger-inducing.
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TheVampiresWife · 09/12/2021 08:45

@rrhuth why are you so convinced that everyone on this thread voted Conservative?!

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:44

I can't accept that one group of people should be protected at the expense of another. I just can't. If you really mean this then the reality is we needed lockdown + additional support for services.

If we need another lockdown, at some point in future, would you choose to save the additional children or the lives of those who will die? Or do you want better investement to try to do better in the round? I want better, that's all.

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TheVampiresWife · 09/12/2021 08:43

This post is just hand wringing

Nice way to dismiss someone's concerns.

I expect you consider yourself to be a caring, empathetic person, don't you? Hmm

Did you read the link I posted?

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 08:41

I'm not ok with the damage caused by lack of support for vulnerable children and families- so I don't vote Conservative.

I'm not ok with tens of thousands of needless deaths, so I am in favour of early lockdowns, ideally short ones to mitigate the effect on society. I don't think we can say there should "never" be another one as things stand, it depends how things pan out with cases, waves and likely numbers of deaths. I am not a "pile the bodies high" person.

These are separate issues.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:41

Because it is true. People vote Conservative, who cut all the services vulnerable children need, and then pretend to care when children are harmed.

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TheVampiresWife · 09/12/2021 08:41

@rrhuth

The reality is lockdown makes it worse which has turned into a convenient excuse for anti-lockdown types.

Anyone who has voted Tory in the last eleven years didn't give a shit about domestic violence or child neglect - they have cut all necessary services brutally. No point wringing your hands now.

For goodness sake. Being concerned about women and children in abusive situations and pointing out the irrefutable fact that the isolation of lockdown makes their situation worse doesn't make you an 'anti-lockdown type'. When will this ridiculous, pointless 'sides' nonsense end? Who does it help?

I've never voted Tory. I'd sooner eat spiders. I've lived with an abuser and in a refuge. DH works with vulnerable people in refuges. This is a topic that's personal to me and I feel incredibly strongly about.

I can't accept that one group of people should be protected at the expense of another. I just can't.
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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 08:40

[quote rrhuth]@MarshaBradyo do not make personal comments about what I care about. You know nothing about what I do or what my family are dealing with.[/quote]
Why say that line then? Confused

It’s awful.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 08:39

@MarshaBradyo do not make personal comments about what I care about. You know nothing about what I do or what my family are dealing with.

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