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Related: Lockdown Learning, discuss home schooling during lockdown.

MNHQ have commented on this thread

8th Dec 6pm press conference
687

PurpleDaisies · 08/12/2021 17:14

Whitty
Vallance
Johnson

I wonder what they’ll say.

OP's posts:
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spongedog · 09/12/2021 18:44

[quote Unsure33]@TheShallows

You do know this could happen if you get covid as well . It can cause blood clots in every organ in your body . I know someone who can only just return to work after 4 months in hospital and 3 months at home . Not old either .[/quote]
I now know of 2 young(er) people - fairly fit - who have developed blood clots, most probably due to Covid. The 1st will take months to get back to normal fitness - the anti-coagulants will work but slowly. The 2nd is only at the start of their journey. Not great at all.

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rrhuth · 09/12/2021 17:47

[quote churchofthepoisonmind]@herecomesthsun do you not think Whitty kills his credibility by sharing a stage - and thereby legitimising Johnson - a known liar? I would have so much more respect for Whitty if he refused to stand alongside him on a point of principle.[/quote]
No because either you accept democracy or you don't.

Fauci had to put up with Trump, Whitty has to put up with Johnson, that is how it goes.

I hate Johnson but Whitty is doing the right thing by upholding his office.

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BanditoShipman · 09/12/2021 17:41

[quote churchofthepoisonmind]@herecomesthsun do you not think Whitty kills his credibility by sharing a stage - and thereby legitimising Johnson - a known liar? I would have so much more respect for Whitty if he refused to stand alongside him on a point of principle.[/quote]
He has to stay there, we need him. I think he’s a saint, I imagine he loathes Boris as much as anyone but is choosing to stay as that is his job and he can do more good in it than out of it

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 12:15

It does baffle me that so many people praise JVT's simple, clear talking style when he uses so many metaphors, sometimes mixed, about pots of yoghurt, trains coming into stations and yellow cards.

Apart from that, he is a good communicator though. I just ignore all the football stuff.

The CMO has to work with the PM, if we have someone like Johnson for PM, I'm really glad we at least have someone like Whitty for CMO.

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Octavia174 · 09/12/2021 12:04

@herecomesthsun

No I think Whitty should stay exactly where he is, he is the most intelligent person and has most integrity out of the people with whom Boris is working.

At least there are some people, Whitty, Vallance and JVT, talking truth to power and trying to get us through this.

...but they are not, they are going along with a conman, who is trashing the scientific advice.

Also, hate the way JVT talks down to us, using simplistic analogies, such as 11 man on football field, now we down to 10, wtf is that all about?

Whitty, did good work on Ebola, i can only think he is sticking with it, as a best worse case option.
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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 11:55

No I think Whitty should stay exactly where he is, he is the most intelligent person and has most integrity out of the people with whom Boris is working.

At least there are some people, Whitty, Vallance and JVT, talking truth to power and trying to get us through this.

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churchofthepoisonmind · 09/12/2021 11:49

@herecomesthsun do you not think Whitty kills his credibility by sharing a stage - and thereby legitimising Johnson - a known liar? I would have so much more respect for Whitty if he refused to stand alongside him on a point of principle.

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 11:41

Also I am very glad that we have Whitty and Vallance there with Johnson and not, say, Heneghan and Gupta.

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 11:41

I'm not saying we should lockdown right now.

If all the numbers go up a lot in a few weeks time, all the options will be on the table however. (Not saying they should necessarily go for lockdown, just that it remains in the toolkit).

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vickyc90 · 09/12/2021 11:37

@herecomesthsun

I don't think anyone has claimed to "care" about CEV people.

They just didn't want them inconveniently dying all at once and / or disrupting the health service and the rest of society with thousands of severely ill people.

A thousand or so extra people dying per week, presumably many of these CEV, is apparently just fine and dandy.

It's not fine and dandy but in the situation of a pandemic is it acceptable is the true question. Just because we can lockdown and save some of them doesn't mean we should. As medics are taught sometimes the kindest thing to do is to do nothing at all
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Octavia174 · 09/12/2021 11:36

Struggling to see how Whitty and Valence can share a stage with Johnson.
For me, he has trashed their rep.

Cabinet insiders saying that at the previous days meeting, the consensus was no to plan B, Partygate erupts, Plan B launched.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 11:20

Church Flowers

It still goes to a vote and more pressure that mounts the more it will swing it. Hard to be at the difficult end of it all

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 10:00

Good luck with the small business @churchofthepoisonmind

I can see that it has been very difficult and I am not surprised in a way that this is where you are coming from.

I don't think we need more restrictions than suggested yesterday right this minute; however I think that it is not impossible that we will have so many cases and hospitalisations in late December/January that more measures come into play.

I am not saying this "should" happen because I am being "caring" but that this could be a pragmatic approach, balancing out various risks and costs, that the Government might need to put into place.

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VikingOnTheFridge · 09/12/2021 10:00

@MarshaBradyo

Most people will take a view based on their own selfish interests or, if personally not vulnerable, their general preferences and beliefs.

Yes for some it will be personal but also if based on beliefs (not sure what best word is) then it’s a changing situation.

What was felt to be right may no longer have as much support. Because the situation has changed and because harm is accumulative.

In short public support for the same again drops - MPs are under more pressure and the conversation shifts. There’s a thread on here which asks 1 to 5 what people would want, I and bet many others have changed views down the numbers, different to start.

Yes, that's a good point. The goalposts also shift. Specifically on here, I think we see a lot of parents who have been willing to accept the interests of children as a cohort (note these three words) being lowered in the priority order at times, in the belief that it was temporary and in the wider interests of society, who now don't feel like this anymore. Some of that is to do with other factors like furlough availability, but I think there's also change of beliefs too.
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churchofthepoisonmind · 09/12/2021 09:55

My rudeness is born of frustration @herecomesthsun
I run a small business and know several other owners via networking events etc.
In the past 6 months I have seen 2 go bust (both 7 figure businesses employing several people, all on good wages paying in high tax rates).
I know several others on the brink. It's the uncertainty that is killing them.
I don't think people realise the tsunami that is coming down the road financially. And, of course, all this will hit public services. Look at austerity post 2008. Debt is almost double what it was then.
The same people calling for tighter restrictions to protect the elderly will be asking why there is no money to look after the elderly and vulnerable in a few years.

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MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2021 09:52

Most people will take a view based on their own selfish interests or, if personally not vulnerable, their general preferences and beliefs.

Yes for some it will be personal but also if based on beliefs (not sure what best word is) then it’s a changing situation.

What was felt to be right may no longer have as much support. Because the situation has changed and because harm is accumulative.

In short public support for the same again drops - MPs are under more pressure and the conversation shifts. There’s a thread on here which asks 1 to 5 what people would want, I and bet many others have changed views down the numbers, different to start.

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VikingOnTheFridge · 09/12/2021 09:49

I thought about vulnerable families when I chose not to vote Brexit, if that helps.

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 09:48

Well I was thinking of a number of issues, when I voted against Brexit.

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toomuchlaundry · 09/12/2021 09:47

So did people think of the vulnerable families when voting for Brexit?

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herecomesthsun · 09/12/2021 09:46

@churchofthepoisonmind
It really is rude to tell people that they "bleat". And cliched. Cliched and rude.

I am arguing for us to keep an open mind with respect to measures for the future, which we might need. I am not saying we need more restrictions right now.

Apparently the cost of Brexit is likely to be higher than the cost of covid, so it has repeatedly been estimated.

cep.lse.ac.uk/_NEW/PUBLICATIONS/abstract.asp?index=7528

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59070020

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VikingOnTheFridge · 09/12/2021 09:44

@TheVampiresWife

Could say the same about people suddenly caring about CEV people to be fair

This.

True.

Generally speaking, too many people either can't or find it convenient not to understand that there is no option open to us that protects 'the vulnerable'. Rather, it's about balancing up competing benefits and harms. There's nothing intrinsically more or less moral about feeling we should prioritise the interests of ECV people over abused children, or vice versa. Most people will take a view based on their own selfish interests or, if personally not vulnerable, their general preferences and beliefs.

There are of course a few sociopaths etc, but generally speaking that's the framework in which most people make their decision. There's not a great deal of benefit comes from intellectualising that, and it's not much of a distraction technique at this point either.
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churchofthepoisonmind · 09/12/2021 09:41

I am asking who pays for covid measures @herecomesthsun
You have no answer all you can do is bleat on and on about more and more measures.
Somebody has to pay for these things.
Brexit is a drop in the ocean compared to covid, I promise you.
The government debt is scarily high and will get worse as more businesses fold and tax receipts fall.
I ask again - who pays for these measures you keep calling for? And how, in turn, will we keep funding the NHS if we are skint?
The irony of your posts is that the very things you are calling for will make things far worse for the elderly and vulnerable in the long term. Far worse.

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DottyHarmer · 09/12/2021 09:41

And blaming the govt, I meant. Autocorrect going barmy these days.

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Octavia174 · 09/12/2021 09:40

@churchofthepoisonmind

anyone who does not support wholesale investment in the services we need can stop pretending they care
*@rrhuth* - here is an economics lesson for you. The current UK gross debt stands at 106 per cent of gross GDP (annual government revenues, essentially). And yes, this is as bad as it sounds. To give some context, in 2009, in the wake of the 2008 bank bailout, this figure was 63 per cent.
This debt is at this level because of lockdowns. It will increase more with further lockdowns. It will also increase more as more small businesses go to the wall due to WFH policies etc.
Who pays for all this? The fucking money fairies?

Without LDs the economy would have still tanked, who goes to the shops or work when there is a virus around that kills off 100s of 1000s of people, regardless of their age?
Instead of Furlough, we would have paid out in mass unemployment, banking collapses & supporting strategic industries.

The BOE has bought almost 900 billion of Bonds/Gilts, these are long term 33 to 55 years.
Other people have bought these too, the whole world owes money, even China, around 67% of GDP - $7 trillion.

Its a merry go round, so if we all owe money, who do we all owe it too?

I wouldn't worry about it, so long as there is still confidence in the UK!
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DottyHarmer · 09/12/2021 09:39

I agree one million per cent with @Waxonwaxoff0 that every single person has a personal agenda. Right back at the beginning of all this it drove me mad and I said every poster should declare their personal circumstances, eg Secure job, large property, large garden, no dcs in important years, Happy to Lockdown!!

No blaming the govt - you can blame them for a whole load of things, but covid? Honestly? Ironically the most anti-govt posters are also the most insular, clearly never spending a second looking at other countries’ restrictions or cases. We may be an island, but covid just doesn’t care. It is not sentient, and really doesn’t follow govt policy of whichever country it lands up in.

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