To believe the Daily Fail - full UK lockdown being announced next week?

[Hmmmmminteresting]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8898985/Boris-Johnson-announce-national-coronavirus-lockdown-WEEK-save-Christmas.html

I hate to believe, but now am also used to this dripfeed we get which 9/10 times ends up being correct 🤔

[Dangermouseis42now]

From BBC news

And this is an underspoken

He said hospitals even in the south-west of England, where cases are among the lowest, will run out of capacity in weeks.
Doctors and nurses would be forced to choose which patients to treat, who would get oxygen and who wouldn't, who would live and who would die," Mr Johnson said.

I don't know why MNers don't listen to us HCPs and argue when we are trying to be real with you on health perspective

[epcot15]

@Mokusspokus

Epcot... One cave was an extremely posh restaurant attached to an extremely posh hotel, in a small low ceiling room lined with windows...

Sounds lovely although I'm not sure your 3 trips out are indicative of the whole UKs hospitality covid procedures

[epcot15]

@Florencemattell

England - emergency government meeting this afternoon- Sunday.
So yes it is going to happen .
If they don’t close schools unfortunately it won’t make any difference.
I’m a nanny the school drop and pick up is deadly. No one wearing masks or socially distancing.

Deadly? Really? Surely if it was that deadly there would be no one left at pickup/drop off?

[Cam77]

At least we’re all nice and distracted for when the Brexit sucker punch lands in a couple of short months.

[Cam77]

Already clear that controlling the virus with a clear strategy is best route to economic recovery.

I could have told you that in February. Trouble is we’re ruled by BoJo the clown and his merry band of Brexit sycophants who thought it better to let the virus spread totally unheeded until Massive Mid March U-Turn, and then got the second wave going again midJune with opening the pubs and EatOut to Fuck Up Christmas.

[Tryingourbest23]

Because @FraughtwithGin you're in Germany and we are U.K.

In my opinion there is far too much emphasis on "protecting" the NHS. If you have a nationally-funded, free at point of delivery "service" then it should be able to cope with anything thrown at it.

Germany has 800 hospital beds per 100000 head and U.K. has 249 hospital beds per 100000.- less than 1/3 of the beds than Germany so our NHS will get more quickly overwhelmed. We already have winter pressure closures at points of nearly all our hospitals on black alerts every year without COVID^^ pandemic demands! And now there's the added pressure of catch up for people whose normal treatment or self initiated admission to hospital was delayed in last lockdown ..

It's not about cost - !!- it's about keeping people alive by slowing down / avoiding spread to vulnerable people in more manageable way so that our NhS can cope. And so medics don't have to make horrid decisions about who will live or die that day due to shortage of beds and respiratory equipment. Eenie meanie miini mo?

Imagine how medics decide in a severe shortage to do that... they have to consider who is likely to live/ respond to allocate the last available ICU beds? And who will clear that bed quicker for next people? Do They give it to MS person or this 70 yo otherwise fit person who might need it for 8 weeks or to the multiple fitter or younger people who will likely need it 2 weeks each and more likely to fully recover... We don't want medical teams being forced to make those kinds of decisions . Yes we talk about protecting the NHS for bloody good reason. (The wider picture of why a public funded health service has less resources than a country with mostly privately funded ones is a complex political one and too late to heavily tax in hard economic times to change now)

[Mokusspokus]

Epcot... One cave was an extremely posh restaurant attached to an extremely posh hotel, in a small low ceiling room lined with windows...

[Mokusspokus]

Schrodinger you have taken my quote out of context.

I want pubs and cafes etc to keep trading.
What is frustrating me is the lack of common sense by opening a window. Just once an hour for goodness sake and a door to change the air. It's free... It's simple, it's easy.... And yet in some places there is no concept of it and a strange rudeness when I suggested opening a window for a moment.

It's the most simple tactic we can use and yet....

[Florencemattell]

England - emergency government meeting this afternoon- Sunday.
So yes it is going to happen .
If they don’t close schools unfortunately it won’t make any difference.
I’m a nanny the school drop and pick up is deadly. No one wearing masks or socially distancing.

[epcot15]

@Hobnobswantshernameback

England
It's England only
Wtf will it take for people to realise that there are devolved nations who have their own rules

Yes I realise it's only England, I'm in Scotland been in severe restrictions since September still hasn't worked.

[epcot15]

@Mokusspokus

It is thick because by simply having some air flow in a hot stuffy room will HELP them keep their business open and people like me will feel comfortable to return.

Just by periodically changing the stale air will help to reduce covid.

If I had a restaurant or pub, that's exactly what I would be insisting on to keep people safe and prolong the opening of my business.

I have no patience anymore. How can people be so utterly thick and stupid especially those who run restaurant and pubs and want to keep trading?

^^ That is exactly what you said, calling people thick for wanting to keep their business trading is disgusting stop trying to back track.

Not sure what caves you have eaten out in all of 3 times but everywhere I have been and it's been many more times than 3 have been well ventilated and most have reduced their capacity by half. Also you seem to be ignoring the fact that the transmission in hospitality sectors is low but no let's shut the pubs cos that'll stop the virus (btw it won't)

[Hobnobswantshernameback]

England
It's England only
Wtf will it take for people to realise that there are devolved nations who have their own rules

[Watermelon999]

[quote Chuggington2]@Watermelon999 I’m not having a go at you when I say this but your posts perfectly illustrates why we have a problem. A complete lack of understanding of how the virus is spread. It’s an airborne virus....the spreads easily and is infectious before someone shows symptoms, mounting evidence shows that airborne transmission is much more significant then fomite transmission. So if you’ve got a group of friends sat close to another group of friends inside talking for what 1.5/2 hrs and one of those has Covid, what do you think sanitising, one way systems and staff wearing masks are going to do to stop it spreading. The lack of understanding is unbelievable.

And it’s not our fault the Government and media have totally ignored and downplayed this element.[/quote]
Obviously you’ll never eliminate all risk, but the precautions mentioned will mitigate some.

Obviously the closer you are to others, the increased risk. Lack of masks when eating and talking increases the risk. We have never been out for a meal inside with anyone outside our household, and the places we’ve been have predominantly been very spread out. (>2m). To me it’s about making your own assessment of the risk and what you’re happy with.

Would you prefer for all of these places to be permanently closed down?

[iolaus]

National should just mean England

[MsTSwift]

In the summer we were traveling in Europe so had to keep ahead of quarantine countries and every time the mail flagged a country might go on a list it always did. Pretty confident the gov is briefing them

[Mokusspokus]

Watermelon, and felt reasonably safe in one place... Very open, airy.. Lots of doors opening and closing but still no actual window open.
Staff in masks and it was large enough to have proper sd between tables. Obviously it's still a risk.

But the other two places, I felt safe to begin with until they filled up... Cheek by jowl, stuffy and no window.. Note hen for a moment. No amount of staff mask wearing or gel on a table will protect me if my fellow diner has covid...

[Mokusspokus]

It is thick because by simply having some air flow in a hot stuffy room will HELP them keep their business open and people like me will feel comfortable to return.

Just by periodically changing the stale air will help to reduce covid.

If I had a restaurant or pub, that's exactly what I would be insisting on to keep people safe and prolong the opening of my business.

[epcot15]

[quote Chuggington2]**@epcot15* it’s the least idiotic comment I’ve seen in a long time, there’s been too much denial about how this virus is spread....I feel your pain and you should have been and should be properly compensated, but for many of us who are watching our livelihoods suffer it’s really difficult to have extensive sympathy with those that are suffering but are also potentially part of the problem, especially when they deny it. As @Mokusspokus* says many hospitality venues have been reluctant to admit how it’s spread and my experience has been the same that in many cases venues haven’t bothered to even follow the too lax rules already in place.

Socialising indoors for extended periods of time is what spreads it, is what let’s it get out of control.

And if you’re in Scotland you can’t really compare it to England, cases are much lower there luckily for you. We’re in West York’s have a look at our cases compared to where you are. Our local hospital Pinderfields cancelled none urgent surgery nearly 2 weeks ago as Covid admissions rocketed, once that capacity has been reached which it’ll be near to now it’s emergency surgery and ICU places. This hospital is the major trauma centre for this area, if you have an RTA this is where you are taken. Have an RTA in the next few weeks and if things continue like they are you’ll have to be taken to a hospital further away without the specialist teams, your chance of survival or chance of having a less serious injury - I.e losing a limb will be greatly diminished. So yes we need to act.[/quote]
Telling people that they are thick for wanting their business to keep trading is an absolutely disgusting comment and no amount of justification will change that.
Also it's a fact that the transmission of the virus in hospitality setting is very low.

I'm also fine thank you, I do not work in any affected business but I can just see further than my own self contained bubble to see the damage it's doing to people's livelihoods and subsequently their mental health.

[Chuggington2]

@Watermelon999 I’m not having a go at you when I say this but your posts perfectly illustrates why we have a problem. A complete lack of understanding of how the virus is spread. It’s an airborne virus....the spreads easily and is infectious before someone shows symptoms, mounting evidence shows that airborne transmission is much more significant then fomite transmission. So if you’ve got a group of friends sat close to another group of friends inside talking for what 1.5/2 hrs and one of those has Covid, what do you think sanitising, one way systems and staff wearing masks are going to do to stop it spreading. The lack of understanding is unbelievable.

And it’s not our fault the Government and media have totally ignored and downplayed this element.

[Letseatgrandma]

Though this suggests otherwise

[Chuggington2]

@Letseatgrandma I put an early post on re this as I think the same. But we have several friends who are teachers and they’re saying you actually need to read between the lines, in our LEA (and we have a high no sense of cases) whilst there are a lot of cases in schools - more senior than pri, pupils don’t seem to be catching it in school or spreading it in school (apparently a lot of the transmission here in senior school pupils has been in friendship groups not in teaching bubbles) - as I said in my prev post this is purely anecdotal though and I can’t speak for other areas.

[Watermelon999]

@Mokusspokus

Restaurants are not socially distanced though and even less, well ventilated.

I've been out 3 times since beginning Sept.
Each time halfway through the restaurant filled up and became stuffy, each time I asked if a window could be opened, for '' a few moments '' each time, either from other customers or staff I have been met with resistance.

Unfortunately the obvious, ventilation message, has not been pushed by our government.

Restaurant can close at 10pm, wipe tables down, staff can wear masks.

None of that will protect customers as much as simply, either keeping a window and door open to allow air to be move and disperse or, periodically opening a window to shift air around.

And yet its like asking for everyone to do something extremely unreasonable, in a pandemic with an airborne respitory virus.

I have no patience anymore. How can people be so utterly thick and stupid especially those who run restaurant and pubs and want to keep trading?

The times I’ve been out for a meal, I’ve felt very safe.

But we have chosen well ventilated, large ceilinged places, or sat outside when able.

The places we’ve been to have had staff wearing masks, table service, one way systems and customers wearing masks when moving around.

There was only one where I felt the tables were too close and we didn’t go back there.

I really feel for the places that have made a huge effort to be as safe as possible (obviously it can never be 100% but nothing is) that they are lumped in with places that allow people to crowd together.

It isn’t fair at all.

We needed test and trace to be more effective at finding the main causes and locations of the spreads in the early days to focus efforts on changing those areas only.

[Noitjustwontdo]

If we have a full lockdown I really don’t want to send my DC to school. If the gov think it’s too dangerous to keep McDonald’s or whatever open then they should be closing schools as well. I know children aren’t as severely affected but their families may be and they can obviously still bring it home.

[Chuggington2]

@epcot15 it’s the least idiotic comment I’ve seen in a long time, there’s been too much denial about how this virus is spread....I feel your pain and you should have been and should be properly compensated, but for many of us who are watching our livelihoods suffer it’s really difficult to have extensive sympathy with those that are suffering but are also potentially part of the problem, especially when they deny it. As @Mokusspokus says many hospitality venues have been reluctant to admit how it’s spread and my experience has been the same that in many cases venues haven’t bothered to even follow the too lax rules already in place.

Socialising indoors for extended periods of time is what spreads it, is what let’s it get out of control.

And if you’re in Scotland you can’t really compare it to England, cases are much lower there luckily for you. We’re in West York’s have a look at our cases compared to where you are. Our local hospital Pinderfields cancelled none urgent surgery nearly 2 weeks ago as Covid admissions rocketed, once that capacity has been reached which it’ll be near to now it’s emergency surgery and ICU places. This hospital is the major trauma centre for this area, if you have an RTA this is where you are taken. Have an RTA in the next few weeks and if things continue like they are you’ll have to be taken to a hospital further away without the specialist teams, your chance of survival or chance of having a less serious injury - I.e losing a limb will be greatly diminished. So yes we need to act.

[Watermelon999]

I suppose it would answer the question whether schools are one of the main causes of spread or not if they’re the only thing left open?

But then on another post, I’ve seen that people are possibly still going to be allowed to travel abroad and this seems ludicrous!