Italian medical officer has died *edited by MNHQ*

[NellyGrace]

www.standard.co.uk/news/world/italy-medical-chief-dies-death-toll-coronavirus-covid19-a4386356.html

[Purplewhitelie]

Well yes young people can also be severely affected by it as we have seen in China.

[Justaboy]

If getting it makes people immune then, why bother with vaccines

Basically it's One and much the same thing! When you have an illness your body will start to make antibodies that fight the incoming infection unless it gets overwhelmed which is what sometimes happens.

However if you already have those antibodies then the body will start that fight before the illness gets establised, and therfore no illness:)

With vacination you are "infected" with a very weak version of the infection so your body makes these antibodies a lot easier and thence you have them next time their needed!

Intresting article here on why ordinary Soap is a very effective anti virus agent:) And works better then the alcohol ones!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

[AllTheIceCream]

I think we should be cancelling mass gatherings and saying if you can work from home you should, bare minimum.

And we should be testing, we appear to have given up on that! How are we going to tell what actions are effective if we have no metric?

[OmartheGoose]

I'm not medical but I think it's because we don't have a vaccine that a lot of us have to get it (and some of us die) and we're trying to engineer the stronger ones getting it.

If we didn't have a vaccine for measles, for eg, a lot of us would have to get it (and some/a lot die) to get herd immunity the hard way. So vaccines are a painless way to get herd immunity. Maybe?

[Devlesko]

If getting it makes people immune then, why bother with vaccines. Do we not have immunity from MMR then, as plenty got it before immunisations?
Herd immunity either works or it doesn't surely?
I'm just questioning why it works for clovid 19 and not MMR, or chicken pox a better example?

[Justaboy]

Herd immunity is where a number of a population have an illness and devlop or possess antibodies so the infection is shall we say "seen off" by the body before it gets established.

Usually done by vacineation or by having the illness.

Course at the moment there is no vaccine so the only way to obtain this is by a sufficent number having that illness, which isn't that good a way of doing it:(

And of course viral things like Flu mutate over time do what was a decent set if antibodies in last year's flu jab isnt as good as it might be this year as the damm thing has changed.

[Devlesko]

I don't get this herd immunity bollocks, we immunise against diseases. We are called names if we don't immunise our kids against every mentionable disease.
So how will we get herd immunity when we can't immunise.
It just doesn't make sense.

[Justaboy]

So what do you think we ought to do?.

[AllTheIceCream]

I don't think aiming to reduce the peak of the epidemic by 20% as quoted in that article is nearly enough.

We have half the intensive care beds of Italy apparently, if we peak at only 20% lower than them we're going to be in a lot of trouble.

[Justaboy]

What do you think to what these Two are putting forward?.

Who no doubt told Boris what to say?.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51874084

[AllTheIceCream]

Herd immunity has fuck all to do with this in all honesty.

Look at chicken pox - ok we have 'herd immunity' to that. Everyone gets it eventually, but we don't have epidemics.

But the plan with this, is to let it run to an epidemic, so we don't get an epidemic in future? That's nonsense.

And the problem is clearly the number of cases at one time

We KNOW what percentage of CV19 patients need intensive care, and we KNOW damn well the NHS can't manage that if a lot of infections happen at once.

So compressing the epidemic into a lot of cases in a short space of time, is going to cause a hell of a lot more deaths than it needed to.

[neveradullmoment99]

I don't understand this either.
How can doing nothing help? Other countries have done nothing [Italy] and look at them now. When will the government WAKE UP TO THIS???They are letting us get it. Pure and simple. They cant stop it so they are letting us all get infected by it in the hope of becoming immune to it!! There is zero research to say that you cant catch it again.
Again like everything the Tories do, its business driving this. :(

[muchtoosoon]

givenmushypeasachance oh doh of course that makes sense!!Ps I love your user name

[givemushypeasachance]

@muchtoosoon - there's a difference between getting exposed to a virus, developing disease, that running its course and your immune system being prepared to deal with the same virus if it encounters it again, vs getting exposed to lots of the virus several times in quick succession. Think of it as you being exposed to a massive dose of virus over the course of an eight hour shift working directly with sick patients, rather than a tiny dose from a fleeting encounter with an unwashed door handle.

[SixesandEights]

talking potato


That's exactly what he is.

[BookMeOnTheSudExpress]

I think he got it from repeated exposure. Nothing in the press mentioned any underlying problems.

[TheHeathenOfSuburbia]

Jaxhog, the UK is currently doing literally nothing to spread out the infection rate.

[muchtoosoon]

repeated exposure may get it worse, which might be why the young Chinese whistleblower doctor Li Wenliang died too.

Doesn't this contradict what Bozza is saying about heard immunity? Surely the idea is you catch C-19, you then have immunity and if exposed to it again you should be more immune and less ill? But maybe not the case?

[Starbuck8419]

Did this man have health issues before hand or did he contract Coronavirus and that killed him off the bat?

[YoursTunbridgeWells]

@BookMeontheSudExpress

Thank you for explaning. It does echo what I heard via DH.

[Thinkingabout1t]

RIP, good man trying to save other people. The sudden outbreak took Italy by surprise. Our government has no such excuse.

[BookMeOnTheSudExpress]

It's the translation that is wrong. Big difference between "is doing" and "will be doing" or "may consider doing"

Any of the video links (actual verified sources, not some random audio sent by someone who has a friend in Italy who has received it on WhatsApp) use hypothetical terminology. And almost all the "listen to this audio from a doctor" have been debunked as fakes. As have some of the videos that people were taking as real.

There is no doubt the situation is very serious, and yes, in some intensive care units they probably already are having to choose who gets intubated first. But it's not a blanket situation as presented by the clickbait hunters.

Today production of ventilators was raised to five times its usual monthly production. A news reader was moved to tears talking to a doctor. Some parts of Italy are on their knees. They've said the south should be spared what's happened in the north because of the lockdown. Facts from todays lunchtime news.

[DowntownAbby]

Italian doctors are all very clear that every single one of us is at risk. This virus is potentially lethal to all of us - young, hold, sick, healthy.

It's almost as if you're purposely trying to whip a frenzy of panic @NellyGrace what with the misleading thread title and the other hyperbole.

Are you concerned that people aren't worried enough? Do you think that creating further panic will help?

[YoursTunbridgeWells]

@BookMeOnTheSudExpress
The Italian govt has NOT said it is not intubating people or that its hospitals can't cope. It has said "may come a time when".

I know you have stated this several times but where is the current source that confirms this. I can believe it as DH's Italian office have stated the same thing - its bad but just coping.

However, the Italian press and subsequently world press have presented that the intubation rationing has already begun in some hospitals. Maybe this sells more papers/ more adverts being sensationalist but there are apparent reports from different nurses and doctors stating the same thing.

And secondly if Not intubating was already happening - I could see why a governement would want to play this down for many reasons.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I question what's really going on out there.

[Jaxhog]

Wow - that news from Italy is grim. This is why the UK has taken the position of trying to spread out the infection rate so the NHS doesn't get overwhelmed by everyone getting sick at once.