Childminded children in cars - should they have a 3 point seatbelt or a lap belt?

[Chocol8]

Ds is 7 and just started with a new childminder today - he was worried about the lap belt and the childminder replied that these were legal.

I am uncomfortable about it as I have read that they are not that safe - can anyone shed any light on this please?

[bensmum3]

I used to childmind, and I strapped my full size seat in with the lap belt, and got it tested by the local road safety officer, so that the other minded children and my dd could all have 3 point seat belts, I would not of been happy putting someone else's child in my car with a lap belt only.
But saying that I had an mpv and I do know that being in the back seat is always recommended as safer than being in the front for children.

[NannyL]

Children should NOT sit in a front seat if it has an air bag at all because the air bag can KILL them in a crash....

its as simple as that (lots of publicity about car seats and air bags, not so much about children and air bags.... dont know why)


there for chidlren are safer in a lap strap in the back ratehr than an airbag front seat, cause although a lapstrap may cause internal injuries it wont kill them.

Many car seats that say they are suitable to be fitted with just a lap strap simply dont strap in tight enough.... so in the event of a crash the child sitting in the seat can be 'hurled forward more' which can cause neck spinal injuries, and therefore paralyse and kill the, WHICH IS WHY ITS SO IMPORTANT THAT CAR SEATS ARE STRAPPED IN PROPERLY (unfortunatly about 50% of car seats are NOT strapped in properly (which is frightening, esp as most mums 'think' they are))

One car seat that really DOES starp tightky into a lap strap is the Britax reinassance, because you strap it in tightly.... lock the seat belt, then use a lever to make it even tighter (so tighter thatn one could do themselves) so it IS held in tightly....

If you really WERE considering taking your child out of the childminders and 'wasting' £600, then maybe it would make mroe economic sense to purchase one of these seats (for about £100) and ask childminder to use that instead because it DOES safely strap in?

Just an idea?

I would NOT be happy with anyone travelling in a lap belt, tho i accept when thats all available it needs to be used, ratehr than no belt at all

[Janh]

A booster seat would help make sure the belt is as low in his hips as possible, Choc; some belts have a long strap on the short end (iyswim) which means they come much higher up on the body.

He is safer with a lap belt than no belt at all - concentrate on that to make him feel better about it!

[Chocol8]

I did do as you suggested Badgerhead and told ds that as long as the belt goes over his lap, not his tummy, it would be safe.

He worries as it feels unusual after being used to a 3 point but may ask if there are any other seats available for him instead.

Besides this problem - she seems like an absolutely fantastic childminder.

[katymac]

It's a cheap 7.99 one - don't know the make, sorry

Car seats are mentioned in the Summer 2004 issue of Who Minds - but only briefly - I can't find the article I'm remembering

[Xena]

What make KM? I would be interested for friend who has a Zafira that has a lap belt in the middle.

[katymac]

My booster seat can be used with a lap belt (you might check your instructions.

I really would offer your spare booster....I'll see if I can find the article in Who Minds about car safety

[Xena]

I'm fairly sure that None of the booster seats that have no back to them can be used with a lap belt and that would be even more unsafe.

IMO it is safer for a child to wear a lap belt than a 3 point belt that cuts into their neck. I say that because I know a child who is to heavy for a booster seat and

[badgerhead]

I have a people carrier which has a lap belt in the middle, but I have a stage one seat that straps in there so don't usually have this problem. If I am out with my family & don't have the car seats in (my 2 dd's are 8, uses a booster seat & nearly 12) I will reluctantly sometimes let my eldest dd use the lap belt if we need to. I think that with your son at seven years old your cm is using her discretion, especially if he is one of the oldest children with her. perhaps you need to talk to your son to reassure him & explain how the belt should fit across his legs & if he is still unhappy carefully ask the cm if there was any other place in the car that your son could sit as he feels unhappy sitting with the lap belt.

[Chocol8]

Thanks, no Katiemac - I never let him in the lap belt in our car - he is my only child and usually sits in the passenger seat next to me with a booster seat.

However, this morning I put him in the back because my car now has airbags and apparently it can maim or even kill a child if it goes off.

I agree the tallest child should be in the lap belt but her car, from what I can gather has more lap belts than 3 points...? I think he probably was the tallest of the children yesterday. Do you think I should give her my spare booster seat to use - with the lap belt - would that make it safer still?

I didn't mention it to her this morning because I want to get my facts straight first.

[katymac]

NCMA's view on car safety is that the new regulations should be used even tho' they are not yet law. In their opinion, C/Mers should be seen to have taken every precaution.

I would ask if any of the car seats can be placed in the lap belt - as this is safer.

Do you ever let him in the lap belt at home?

Is he the largest child?

If he is the largest child then she is following the guidlines.

Hope this resolves easily (& soon)

[Chocol8]

Hi Misdee - this whole thing is very confusing.

Although I have just learned that ds needs to be put in the back of the car as my new car has airbags - so worth asking for that alone.

Any suggestions on what to say/do please?

[misdee]

child restraint means car seat. the belts have to be used.

[QueenOfQuotes]

don't have to use a child restraint (ie they should still have a seatbelt on but it doesn't have to be a car/booster seat)

[Pixiefish]

QoQ-

think you have to be under 11 years of AGE before this applies- think you're safe FOR NOW

[Chocol8]

They don't have to use a restraint over 3yrs at the moment??? OMG - around here there was an article in the local rag about people being fined £20 on the spot for not belting their children up, which alot of people actually do around here!

This seems mad to me - if you have a seatbelt - why not use it!

[QueenOfQuotes]

I think it depends on the booster seat - some are designed for use with either lap or 3point belts, some only work with 3point.

[Chocol8]

I just went on to google and its telling me it has a virus and to check my computer - oh no!!!
Nothing coming up on Norton though...

Yes, not quite sure how she copes though I am sure she doesn't have all the children at once.

My ds absolutely loves it there and I would hate to take him away, but if the car is unsafe, I will have to. He obviously has a booster seat when in my car, but it doesn't look like ROSPA give any info on lap belts and boosters - do any of you clever people know?

Thanks for that JanH!

[QueenOfQuotes]

ooo wonder if it's then illegal for adults under 150cm to travel without a carseat! I'm scraping on the 'line' - just 150cm can just be sitting with my legs dangling over the side of a car seat

[Pixiefish]

The law's changing next year (not relevant for you now i know but definetly something to consider pointing out to childminder)

will be:


At the moment children over the age of 3 don?t have to use a child restraint. By May 2006 it will be illegal to let a child under 11 and less than 150cm (5ft) tall to travel without a car seat. Using an adult seatbelt before a child is sufficiently developed may put them at higher risk of internal injury.

i got that from here:
www.mothercare.com/stry/carseats&layout=mainlayout

[Fran1]

pmsl!!!

you guys definitely spend too much time googling!

[QueenOfQuotes]

lol JanH - while I was taking my time with that - you'd got the same thing.

[Janh]

Are there side-facing seats in the back with lap-belts? That would be somewhat safer than front-facing but still not ideal. 7 does sound like a lot of kids for one minder in one car...

I don't know what you should do, Chocol8 - sorry -

[QueenOfQuotes]

This is what RoSPA has to say about it

"Q: I have 3 children, but the middle rear passenger seat only has a lap belt. Should 1 child travel in the front seat with a 3-point belt even though there is an airbag?"

A: It is difficult to say conclusively which is the safer option and ultimately it will be a question of personal choice influenced by the age and size of your children and whether they are using child restraints.

It is safer for a child to use a 3-point belt than a lap-only belt but the rear passenger seats are safer than the front seat. Some child restraints (mostly group 1 seats) can be fitted using the lap belt only - check the manufacturers' fitting instructions. If you do have to put a child in the front seat, put the tallest/heaviest child in the front. If there is an airbag, make sure the passenger seat is rolled back as far as possible, that the child seat is very securely fitted and the child is securely held by the harness or seat belt.

If you do have to put a child in a seat with a lap belt, put the tallest/heaviest child in this seat, and make sure the lap belt is worn correctly - across the top of your child's thighs and around their hips, not across their stomach.

Under no cirumstances, put a rearward-facing baby seat in the front if there is a passenger airbag.

[Janh]