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Black Mumsnetters

West African music taught by a white (British) man

167 replies

thehighsandthelows · 02/03/2022 17:34

Traditional West African drumming taught to some children. I was surprised to see a white man show up. Maybe naively I expected someone West African. Research shows mainly white, British employees. Some African performers featured. A lot of praise for traditional African music and reference to the training they have received in West Africa. It doesn't sit right with me but can't find similar opinions voiced? No one else seemed remotely surprised?! Lots of praise for them and positivity. Bookings for celebrating black history months! With no one black in the photos!! Grateful for any views.

OP posts:
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ImaniMumsnet · 03/03/2022 19:19

Hello everyone,

We would just like to remind users that as stated on the board, "This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful."

Best,
MNHQ

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OverTheRubicon · 03/03/2022 19:23

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@OverTheRubicon - nonone is claiming to have gone anywhere for a week except in your example. Op objects to a music teacher (who would appear to be suitably qualified) because of the colour of their skin. An analogous situation would be objecting to a suitably qualified teacher of Irish traditional dance because they are black. Of course that happens but when it does it’s racism.[/quote]
It's not. Except in the extremely rare case of the drumming teacher actually being from a west African country (which, by the way, have some extremely different musical traditions). A black Irish dancing teacher here would actually be from the relevant place, would not be referring to Irish dancing as 'British Dancing'.

If a white person moved to Ghana, learned the language, studied the traditional music and taught Ghanaian drumming well enough to get students Vs others there, then I would respect their right to teach too. But that's not the situation in this case.

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CayrolBaaaskin · 03/03/2022 19:35

@OverTheRubicon - i think it was op who referred to drumming as being “west African” rather than the music teacher. Nobody mentioned British dancing abs no idea where the hypotheticals in your post came from.

Your post seems to indicate that you don’t think objecting to a suitably qualified teacher on the basis of their skin colour is not racist- I would have to disagree. I think it definitely is abs I will leave it at that.

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emuloc · 03/03/2022 19:40

I would like to know why my comment was deleted please @MNHQ

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PutTheSinkInTheWashingMachine · 03/03/2022 19:46

Hmm, racism where? I believe this thread was reported to high heavens and MNHQ deleted it in order to 'take a closer look'. It's been reinstated so I assume there's no problem. If you see a racist post, do report.

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emuloc · 03/03/2022 19:54

Quite which I more or less said in my post that MN seemed to think needed to be deleted. I note that the post before mine, which I was replying too, is still there though.

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EchoNan · 03/03/2022 19:56

@OverTheRubicon

Sounds bad. Circumstances do matter a bit here.
If he's British, doing this as a specific business or business line, and even more if it's in an area where there are plenty of others who could teach this or other similar music classes with deeper cultural understanding and heritage, he's so far out of line and so is the person who hired him (probably while patting themselves on the back for their inclusiveness).

If he's actually Ghanaian, or if he's a generalist music teacher who has to do absolutely everything but is trying to ensure that his students get a taste of different styles or something from some of their own heritage, and has travelled to learn it in a west African country, then it's a bit different. In an ideal world it would still have someone to supplement the white music teacher, but in my experience of state school budgets now, having any music teacher at all is a win.

Certain people seem to have deliberately missed what you said upthread.
HTH.
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EchoNan · 03/03/2022 20:03

@emuloc. I am sending you a pm.

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Cherrysherbet · 03/03/2022 20:04

I choose to go through life not judging people by their skin colour.

That is all.

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Gowithme · 03/03/2022 20:05

I think it's extraordinarily odd to want to book someone white to help celebrate Black History month - surely that is wholly missing the point?

I also think if you have an ethnically diverse school and you bring in someone white to teach an African skill then exactly what message is that giving to the black children? I'd say it's giving the message that black people have some nice ideas.....but white people are better at delivering them so we got a white person instead.

I think white people (and I'm one so apologies for jumping in) often don't realise the impact that sort of message can have, especially if it happens repeatedly over the longer term because white people see themselves reflected everywhere all the time.

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Soontobe60 · 03/03/2022 20:11

@Gowithme

I think it's extraordinarily odd to want to book someone white to help celebrate Black History month - surely that is wholly missing the point?

I also think if you have an ethnically diverse school and you bring in someone white to teach an African skill then exactly what message is that giving to the black children? I'd say it's giving the message that black people have some nice ideas.....but white people are better at delivering them so we got a white person instead.

I think white people (and I'm one so apologies for jumping in) often don't realise the impact that sort of message can have, especially if it happens repeatedly over the longer term because white people see themselves reflected everywhere all the time.

Completely agree. We should aim to ensure children see themselves reflected in every situation they experience in school. Not just linked to colour or ethnicity, but across the whole gamut of diversity.
Are the science teachers female? Is the Head female? Are there male teachers in EYFS? Is the person signing for a hearing impaired child also hearing impaired?
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Kanaloa · 03/03/2022 20:20

@maddy68

Isn't that the same though as a black man teaching traditional Spanish guitar? Which I had lessons from. Why can't anyone of any colour be able to teach a subject competently?

If you read the thread this question has been answered several times. I’ve answered it twice myself.
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ldontWanna · 03/03/2022 20:21

@savehannah

I'd say that although it would be better if there was an African musician who could deliver this teaching. But given the reality that the number of such teachers is undoubtedly very small in Britain, especially in certain areas, isn't it better that the children are being taught about a variety of music from different cultures rather than only European classical music?

But why are the numbers so low?
Historically a lot of things associated with African culture were seen as a negative or just not in demand enough to make a living. So people moved away from it as a "career" keeping it small to families or communities. Systemic and structural racism saw those people bypassed and overlooked in favour of white people.

Now that it's all socially acceptable and in demand, it's pretty naive and short sighted to say "oh but there's just so few of them".

Efforts should be made to encourage and bring them back to representing their culture and showcasing their skills. Train ,hire and promote them. Give them the same opportunities.

Not just shrug our shoulders and say well white people are more in numbers and are just as good, when they're taking advantage and profiting from racism and colonialism.
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PutTheSinkInTheWashingMachine · 03/03/2022 20:22

@emuloc

Quite which I more or less said in my post that MN seemed to think needed to be deleted. I note that the post before mine, which I was replying too, is still there though.

Can't imagine why your post was deleted - I can't remember what you wrote.

I went to check and the one above yours is deleted too, with an odd message. Nearly missed it.
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StartingGrid · 03/03/2022 20:27

Wondering OP, have you actually asked any of the Black men you know why they aren't teaching drumming for a living?

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OverTheRubicon · 03/03/2022 20:28

There are loads of Black men teaching drumming.

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EchoNan · 03/03/2022 20:31

@OverTheRubicon

There are loads of Black men teaching drumming.

And, ahem, black women too Grin
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DeeCeeCherry · 03/03/2022 20:53

And, ahem, black women too

Yep....😁

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DeeCeeCherry · 03/03/2022 20:58

& the number of African cultural artistes here in UK isnt small. There are loads.

Schools know, because they often book. & as I said earlier, outside London achools most often want authentic.

On the other hand you have places like the Old Vic, theatre arts organisation based in South London, who dont employ Black staff...!

They may book Black artistes on a casual very occasional basis; at a push.

Thats the kind of thing Black artistes have to contend with.

There are a couple of organisations working to highlight this. Some organisation staff are White, yet they 'get it'. Because they want to.

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PutTheSinkInTheWashingMachine · 03/03/2022 20:59

OP doesn't have a problem solely because he has white skin, as you keep saying. OP is questioning this man's cultural and ethnic ties to what he's teaching, ESPECIALLY because of age-old cultural appropriation and exploitation of different aspects of Black cultures by White people. All the 'But what if a Black person from Wakanda did this or that' posts are missing the point.

And that's the thing. Some BMNers may agree, others not; OP may end up seeing things differently or not but Black mumsnetters have a right to talk about this without accusations of "reverse racism", especially from those who don't care about actual racism. We have this space to talk about things like this without constantly wading through those who're missing the point, deliberately or not.

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PutTheSinkInTheWashingMachine · 03/03/2022 21:01

Sorry that was to another poster whom I don't care to quote as their aim seems to be to deflect and accuse BMNers of racism.

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Katya213 · 03/03/2022 21:10

[quote Zilla1]@Katya213 You've convinced me with your Wow. Much better to have a white person appear during a Black history month to lead a Guinean drumming session to a class of Black children. Thinking about it, would be just as good if it were a class of white children. Excellent messaging to both.[/quote]
Who cares what colour their skin is if they can do the job?

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EchoNan · 03/03/2022 21:17

@DeeCeeCherry. I didn't know that about the Old Vic. (Northerner here)

Wow, I am shocked. (I suppose I shouldn't be.)

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EchoNan · 03/03/2022 21:39

Katya213 You do realise that Zilla is not a black person?
( I know because I've had chats with Zilla a long time ago.)
Zilla likes to talk things through. As do I. Try it yourself sometime.
Hi Zilla!

I'm cringing for you trying to twist someone's words.

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EchoNan · 03/03/2022 22:13

Not cringing for Zilla, but the other party, just to clarify.

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