To think there isn’t a way of getting kids to listen to you without yelling your head off

[stressedoutandoverwhelmed]

Fully expecting to be told I’m totally unreasonable here but I have not found one if one exists

I have read the books

the book you wish your parents had read
how to talk so little kids will listen

I am sure there is another I can’t remember

and none of the techniques work.

is this just life now? It’s depressing and miserable if so. I’m starting to think that that’s just parenting though.

Obedience: Why Don't Kids Listen Until You Tell Them Five Times?

What IS the behaviour? Is it possible your expectations aren't age appropriate? Especially if you have a pre school aged child.

I have a 4 and 8 yr old and sometimes I need to shout to get attention or whatever if there's a safety issue but otherwise shouting is completely counter productive.

Eldest is asd with slow processing so sometimes just doesn't react and it is like being ignored. Rather than shouting it's way more effective to go close and out my hand on his arm because it properly engages him.

Youngest is 4 and doesn't really ignore me, probably because she doesn't have slow processing. She can ignore requests or whatever like can you come to the table for dinner, she can be found minutes later still turning cartwheels in the living room but she responds at least letting me know she's just finishing a routine. Yes both things are infuriating but these behaviors are entirely normal kid behaviour not them being horrible.

Your kids will know you view them negatively, is suggest getting some therapy for yourself for whatever led you here

Yes so tend to just pick up and remove, a bit like you would a cat. DS also has a very annoying habit of swinging around on his dining chair - often tips over pulling food off the table with him, and I am concerned in the medium term he will break the chair. So the chair is taken away and he eats standing up if he can’t stop swinging. No temper losing, just one warning then a consequence.

Mine are the same.

@Velumental very very possibly. I know in an academic sense a lot of it is normal but it really does provoke an almost visceral reaction in me when they are both endlessly repeating the same question I’ve answered or talking at me at once or climbing up on things. I don’t have time or money for therapy. But thanks.

@ToffeeCrabApple it isn’t just me I know. I hate the fact I have to be horrible and upset them.

You don’t have to be. You’re the adult and the one with control over this situation.

I do have to be or accept absolute chaos. There is no other way and believe me I have tried. Otherwise things are ruined and broken and life is dysfunctional and awful.

It is a shame but it is what it is for the foreseeable.

You’re going to hate what I’m about to say: your children are acting up like this for you because they don’t get enough of you. I HATE that I’m saying this because it’s clear from what you’ve written that you hold down a FT job and have a 5yo and 2yo so there’s really not much left of you to give. But ime, kids who behave like this do so because they’re not getting enough one on one attention from someone who cares to spend time explaining stuff, describing stuff, listening to them etc etc.

Young kids are boring af imo. By definition, they have nothing interesting to say or do so when they become even the tiniest bit annoying (by adult standards) it’s already on the back of drudgery and listening to them whine and be emotionally and sometimes literally incontinent. It’s enough to test anyone’s patience. But this is what it boils down to. They need emotional and intellectual nourishment and they’re not getting as much of it as they need (they need what they need, every kid is different).

If yours is a household where you must work, I don’t know what the solution is. So, I don’t think you’re a bad parent for shouting. I think it’s completely understandable. You’re not a shit parent. You’re doing what you can to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies and that’s a lot as it is. They will grow out of this and mature into understanding more. Perhaps at the weekends you can prioritize listening and spending time listening and talking and playing, one at a time or one per parent if there is another one. Keep doing this and as they grow up they will understand what’s expected and normal and that school/afterschool etc is abnormal. And, actually, it doesn’t even take as much time as you’d think because their attention spans are so short. Even an hour, twice a day, will have an impact.

Don’t feel bad. These are the absolute worst years hopefully. You’re not a shitty parent. You’re a stressed out and exhausted parent who doesn’t have the stamina or headspace to show endless patience. You’re not alone.

Shouting at your children all the time is dysfunctional. You say it’s the only way they’ll listen, but they’re clearly not. Now they’re learning to tune you out. You shout too much and they’ll become immune to it. Then where are you going to escalate to? Shouting all the time is absolutely pointless.

@canklesmctacotits sorry wrong … I only work two days a week term time only. Probably just a shit parent 😂

What consequences have you tried? Find something he really reallt cares about. Go big if you need to. There will be something.

When he's calm explain that now he's too big to climb on tables and he could get injured coming off it. Explain your the adult and need to keep him and his siblings safe so if he climbs on the table, you will take him off once. The next time he has 5 mins alone somewhere, and the next time XYZ is gone. For my kid it was his batman house thing. That went in the loft overnight. He didn't climb on the bookcase again. It took a while to work out what he'd really care about, but once we found something, it worked a treat.

I have already said I am pretty resigned to the fact they will hate me and I am numb to this. They don’t like me much and the feeling is often mutual. Love is probably there but buried. So that’s where we’re at. If I could change it I would. Please don’t tell me I can. I can’t.

In which case, spend the time with them! Do the hard and dull work and you’ll reap the rewards.

Also the relentless questioning is probably them leaning from you. If you ask 5 times for them to get their shoes on before they do it, they'll think it's a normal way to interact.

Hang on in there though, it's shit but it does get easier.

Oh I have. I really have tried. I’ve read books and I’ve followed advice on here and it just doesn’t work. He just will not stop climbing on the table.

Take something off him as a consequence and he cries and begs for it back then climbs on the table.

Sticker chart; we were in -8 stickers yesterday for climbing on the table, then I lost count, it becomes meaningless.

Asking nicely to get down - nope

Telling him what to do not what not to do - nope

It just doesn’t work, none of it does. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. I shouldn’t have posted. It makes me realise how hopeless it all actually is.

My children are really lovely on their own.

Together? They are just unpleasant children I hear you OP.

I don’t shout because they don’t listen regardless and sometimes match my volume which I find unbearable. What I have started to do is just cut off the root cause e.g won’t clean teeth because watching tv? Switch it off no warning. Fighting at dinner time? I finish my food and leave the table. Arguing in the park? I send one to one area and another to a different area.

Separating them as much and as often as possible is the only thing I have found that has made any marginal improvement and stops me wishing for the sweet sweet release of death.

?
actually never mind but … what

So what are you here for? The self-flagellation isn’t enough and now you need randoms on Mumsnet to join in making you feel bad?

I started reading this thread feeling really pissed off at you.!
Now I’m just really sad and I’m genuinely sorry for you and your babies that you feel this way.

I don’t think you sound like you’re in a normal headspace, and I really do believe that you need to reach out to your GP. Obviously I’m not a medical professional, but I think you may be depressed and it’s not fair on you or your children to carry on feeling as you do without trying to get help.

Mine are the same @Imthefunfriend . I’m limited in how much I can do about it though. Like sometimes there’s something direct I can do (I have started removing toys if someone starts fighting over it which is unfair on the job fighting child but works) but other things I’m stumped - leaping all over the sofas; I can’t remove the sofas. (Yes I am sure there are things I could do but they have to be practical.)

It is completely shit. Everyone is miserable.

This shows you don’t know how to set up expectations and implement consequences. You need a parenting class. There’s no need to get into a pit of self loathing about it. Accept that you need help and sign up to a parenting course.

I’ve no idea sorry I haven’t psychoanalysed, probably is an element of self flagellation. Does it matter?

Have you explained to him why he can’t get on the table? Han you told him he could fall off and crack his head open and he’d have to go to the hospital? If you have and he doesn’t care, you’ve got different problems. If you haven’t - why not?

Oh believe me, I’m far more miserable than my kids @stressedoutandoverwhelmed 😭 literally spend most days cursing my life choices.

I have 4 kids. They can be like pack animals. Sometimes you do just have to yell and lay down the law before they start thinking this house is a democracy.