I know this will be contentious - cost of living rise

[qualitychat]

My mum is a pensioner and gets Disability Benefit and Mobility Benefit and Pension Credit. She receives almost what I get in a month. She is moaning about the Government not doing enough about the cost of gas and electricity, which I agree with. The thing is they have said that people on benefits and pension credit will be given lump sums towards their bills. I am a middle earner and so is my husband. We will likely get nothing. Do you not think it will be the ordinary working families who will be squeezed the most if something is not done?

[SoloCat]

@MsPincher

Again not at all true. The mirror pension funds recouped most of the missing money in the end. The equitable life guaranteed pensions lost value (because they were guaranteed at an unaffordable rate - would never be available now) but the pensioners didn’t lose all their money at all.

the current generation of pensioners have huge wealth in comparison to what the next generation will have. They have really done very well indeed as a whole.

This post might be from a while back, but I would like to add that a lot of pensioners did lose money from equitable life pension. My parents paid into it for years..family ran their own business, they lost all of their pension. It was under a Labour government that it was decided to only cover the cost of later pension contributions at a nominal rate…my parents paid in for decades and ended up with only a state pension. Good old Tony Blair …one reason I will never vote Labour, amongst many others!

[Legofigure]

Well it certainly wasn’t clear to me.

And she can’t claim UC because it’s an income replacement benefit, as is carers allowance, which she is already claiming - and you can’t claim both.

^^This may well put someone off or worry them because it says “you can’t claim both”. If you didn’t mean can’t you should have explained more.

I didn’t say a claimant would be worse off because they aren’t claiming CA, although there are other benefits to claiming CA than the monetary value of the benefit itself.

[Rosscameasdoody]

@Legofigure

It’s not pedantry when someone posting you can’t claim both together may prevent someone from claiming or worry someone already claiming.

I’ve turned off notifications to the thread because I can’t be bothered with this any more. I think it’s clear enough from the discussion what I meant, and I don’t think anything I posted would put someone off claiming, or worry someone who is. If a CA claimant puts in a claim for UC they will have the CA amount deducted and the underlying entitlement will give them back the carers element of UC. That’s what I meant when I said you can’t claim both - CA is an income replacement benefit and as such overlaps with several others, including UC and is clawed back. A UC claimant who isn’t yet claiming CA won’t be any worse off than one who is, because there’s nothing to deduct and they will establish the same underlying entitlement and receive the carers element.

[Legofigure]

By prevent I mean in the sense of someone may not claim because they believe the poster who says they can’t.

[Legofigure]

It’s not pedantry when someone posting you can’t claim both together may prevent someone from claiming or worry someone already claiming.

[MoistBandana]

Pedantry. Jesus h Christ

[Legofigure]

There’s nothing I don’t understand about that. I posted UC deduct CA £ for £ in my first post. But deducting £ for £ is not the same thing as being unable to claim both at the same time, which is what you stated when you posted “you can’t claim both”, that is what I corrected. You absolutely can claim UC at the same time as claiming CA. Don’t you understand the meaning can’t and deducted or reduced?

I also posted upthread someone didn’t need to be claiming CA in order to receive the carer element of UC, so I don’t know why you are telling me that.

[Rosscameasdoody]

@Legofigure

No it doesn’t amount to the same thing. You said And she can’t claim UC because it’s an income replacement benefit, as is carers allowance, which she is already claiming - and you can’t claim both. which is factually incorrect as you can claim both. You posting misinformation may prevent someone from claiming when they are entitled to or worry someone already claiming.

Your quote doesn’t say you can’t claim it says “You may not be able to get Carer’s Allowance or it may be reduced/eliminated” and yes it is reduced but it doesn’t mean you can’t claim. Reduced and can’t have vastly different definitions.

UC wipes out CA pound for pound. What don’t you understand about that ? So someone who is already claiming CA will have their UC claim reduced by the amount of CA - £67.70. Then they will be eligible for carers element of UC at £38.85. Someone who isn’t claiming CA before they claim UC, who has caring duties and would be eligible for CA, will have underlying entitlement and will receive the carers element just the same - but they won’t have any existing CA as a stand alone benefit to take into account for the UC calculation. Can’t be bothered with this any more.

[Legofigure]

No it doesn’t amount to the same thing. You said And she can’t claim UC because it’s an income replacement benefit, as is carers allowance, which she is already claiming - and you can’t claim both. which is factually incorrect as you can claim both. You posting misinformation may prevent someone from claiming when they are entitled to or worry someone already claiming.

Your quote doesn’t say you can’t claim it says “You may not be able to get Carer’s Allowance or it may be reduced/eliminated” and yes it is reduced but it doesn’t mean you can’t claim. Reduced and can’t have vastly different definitions.

[Rosscameasdoody]

@Legofigure

This lists all the overlapping benefits you can’t claim together, as you will see it doesn’t include universal credit because you can claim UC and CA together.

From DWP.

Can I claim Carer’s Allowance if I get other state benefits?
The ‘overlapping benefits’ rule means that, although you may qualify for two or more earnings-replacements benefits, you normally can’t receive the full amount for more than one benefit at the same time.

You may not be able to get Carer’s Allowance or it may be reduced/eliminated if you receive one or more of the following benefits:

State pension (see more on this above)
Contributory Employment and Support Allowance
Incapacity Benefit
Maternity Allowance
Bereavement or Widow’s Benefits
Severe Disablement Allowance
Income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance
Universal Credit (see more on carer element above)

My terminology may be different but it amounts to the same thing. Carers Allowance is an overlapping benefit. If a UC claimant is already claiming CA, it will remain in payment but will be deducted pound for pound from UC entitlement and the claimant will be eligible for the UC carer element of £38.85. If the claimant is not already claiming CA, and they are eligible to do so, they will establish an underlying entitlement and will receive the £38.85 carer element.

[sleezeandwineparty]

Well that didn't take long... now we don't have the "immigrants" you start on the disabled and elderly....
And someone has had the audacity to suggest they don't see disabled people struggling for money.... do you know why? Because many live with elderly relatives who are struggling for money.
No pensioners and the non working disabled cannot increase their income, working people theoretically can, or can earn money in the future.


The problem is not disabled people or their benefits... it is this shit government who have systematically dismantled every nice and decent thing in this country and somehow convince you all its the nasty Labour Party who have done this... then brag they have been in power for approximately 30 of the past 40 years.

What do you want disabled people to do? Maybe we could just turn off their heating and get them to die quietly?

[Rosscameasdoody]

@Morph22010

That’s not correct. You get ni credit if your salary is above the ni limit which is £123 a week but you don’t actually pay any ni until your are above the primary threshold which is £190 a week. Carers allowance is lost at £132 a week so anyone earning enough to lose carers is earning above the lower earnings limit so will get ni credit

Sorry, you’re right. I omitted to say an NI credit would be made anyway between £123 and £242. I wasn’t getting into the specifics about earnings thresholds for NI as the poster was talking about earning enough to lose CA. The primary threshold is £242, at which NI would actually be paid, rather than being a credit.

[Legofigure]

This lists all the overlapping benefits you can’t claim together, as you will see it doesn’t include universal credit because you can claim UC and CA together.

[Legofigure]

No, it’s not what you said. Stating you can’t claim CA and UC at the same time is incorrect. And, it is not the same thing as stating you can claim UC but UC deduct the amount of CA £ for £. Not the same thing at all as people still receive both benefits. Many claimants claim both at the same time.

UC don’t replace CA with the carer element, it is as well as, and a claimant doesn’t even need to be claiming CA to receive the carer element.

She will not be worse off for claiming UC, it doesn’t work like.

[Rosscameasdoody]

@Legofigure

You can claim UC and carer’s allowance at the same time, UC just deduct the CA £ for £. A family on CA and £20k pa with a severely disabled DC would be eligible for UC.

HRC/HRM DLA is over £600 per 4 weeks, although the poster will only be receiving just short of £370 of that in money due to the WAV.

So they end up without the CA, which is exactly the same thing as I said. You can’t claim UC and CA at the same time - they’re both income replacement benefits. UC would deduct CA pound for pound from UC entitlement and replace it with a carer element, which is much less than CA, so it depends on whether UC entitlement is more than the CA she gets now.

[Rosscameasdoody]

@whatsthestory123

because people are leaving out money they are getting and making out they are worse of than they are making out they are getting less than they are

some on here dont have a basic knowledge of benefits so rhe wool can be pulled over their eyes but some do have an idea and im amazed rhat so many try to leave the ££ out as it will not look good with some add on's

also the lady who's dh is self employed did not answer the ?? from posters i wonder why probably because they do get UC and CA is claimed so high is awarded

HERE op's partial post

My daughter (seriously disabled physically and mentally) qualifies for higher rate DLA and mobility component (which goes on our WAV).

i thought you knew everything obviously not i suggest read the threads well before getting it all wrong and yes the lady gets high both rate DLA for her daughter,maybe you should re read

I wasn’t being rude - I genuinely didn’t understand the point you were trying to make in your post. I’ve read the thread and the lady’s post and I asked for clarification of yours because I didn’t understand the point you were disputing, that was all. You obviously didn’t read my post further down, correcting myself because I posted £600 a week and meant per month - every four weeks to be exact. Not that I don’t know what I’m talking about. - just that I posted before I realised how it read and there is no edit facility on MN. And yes, obviously less because of the motability vehicle direct payment from mobility component.

But I am correct in that Carer's Allowance counts as income when UC is calculated. It’s deducted from UC pound for pound. An extra amount is then added to UC called a 'carer element' but it’s paid at a lower rate than CA, which is £69.70 per week and the carer element of UC is paid monthly and works out at £38.85 a week. You cannot claim CA and UC at the same time - CA is classed as an income replacement benefit, as is UC and you can’t claim both. There are other benefits such as ESA or JSA which are also income replacement benefits so you can’t claim CA with them either - income related ESA would attract a carers premium similar to UC.

I also don’t think the poster was trying to leave anything out, or make out she’s worse off than she is. She hasn’t said she is claiming UC - she may have savings that take her over the threshold, or she may have worked out that she will be worse off if the amount she can claim is less than CA. Doesn’t make her, or anyone else dishonest.

[Morph22010]

@PinkRiceKrispies

I don't understand the NI credit bit. So if you earn £123 a week your employer pays the NI or is it not credited at all ?

you get ni credit for state pension purposes, ie it counts as a year you’ve paid ni when counting how many years you have to see if you qualify for state pension but you don’t actually have to pay anything

[Legofigure]

@Rosscameasdoody

She’s already told you her daughter is on disability benefits and how the income is split. the figures you’re giving don’t make any sense. DLA rates for children can be anywhere from £18 a week up to over £600 depending on level of disability. And she can’t claim UC because it’s an income replacement benefit, as is carers allowance, which she is already claiming - and you can’t claim both. Don’t really understand your post - you seem to be disputing something but I can’t tell what.

You can claim UC and carer’s allowance at the same time, UC just deduct the CA £ for £. A family on CA and £20k pa with a severely disabled DC would be eligible for UC.

HRC/HRM DLA is over £600 per 4 weeks, although the poster will only be receiving just short of £370 of that in money due to the WAV.

[MrsDanversRidesAgain]

@RunningSME I know, I'm out.

[RunningSME]

@MrsDanversRidesAgain

well the reasons are endless and cloaked in logic. But it all boils down to the same thing, they have to make sure womenz aren’t accidentally spending all their money on shoes and eyeliner

OK. Whatever. I mean, you're wrong but you've got a bee in your bonnet about it that no reasoned argument is going to shift. My mother was the same, no amount of logic or evidence would convince her otherwise and arguing with her was like beating your head against a brick wall because she always had to be right, however illogical her stance and whatever we said to demonstrate otherwise.

Tried to explain in detail why the two scenarios are completely legally different, you’re wasting your breath

[MrsDanversRidesAgain]

well the reasons are endless and cloaked in logic. But it all boils down to the same thing, they have to make sure womenz aren’t accidentally spending all their money on shoes and eyeliner

OK. Whatever. I mean, you're wrong but you've got a bee in your bonnet about it that no reasoned argument is going to shift. My mother was the same, no amount of logic or evidence would convince her otherwise and arguing with her was like beating your head against a brick wall because she always had to be right, however illogical her stance and whatever we said to demonstrate otherwise.

[PinkRiceKrispies]

I don't understand the NI credit bit. So if you earn £123 a week your employer pays the NI or is it not credited at all ?

[Morph22010]

@Rosscameasdoody

But if you were earning a salary the NI wouldn’t be a credit, you would actually pay it. And if you’re below the earnings threshold you wouldn’t be paying it and would still have to claim carers credit on the underlying entitlement.

That’s not correct. You get ni credit if your salary is above the ni limit which is £123 a week but you don’t actually pay any ni until your are above the primary threshold which is £190 a week. Carers allowance is lost at £132 a week so anyone earning enough to lose carers is earning above the lower earnings limit so will get ni credit

[Sugarplumfairy65]

@antelopevalley

Also, plenty of older people lost their private pensions when their companies went bust. Private pensions did not use to be legally protected.

This is what happened to my husband and why hes still working in his 70's

[Discovereads]

@MrsDanversRidesAgain

Go back to page 18, it was explained on there why a husband would be asked to co-sign a loan t his wife.

The purported reason why doesn’t matter imho. You read past politicians and philosophers on reasons why a wife must get a husband to give permission for something, or sign with her or for her…well the reasons are endless and cloaked in logic. But it all boils down to the same thing, they have to make sure womenz aren’t accidentally spending all their money on shoes and eyeliner.