After 45/50 years old - financial security when I see other marriages failing

[JackRatt]

Hello all,

I have various friends who are currently going
through terrible divorce/ break ups (in these cases male instigated -affairs etc) and at the moment finances are completely controlled by men, who seem to be holding all the cards…

I wondered what the best way to safeguard and protect your future is? Especially if you have been a SAHM for the majority of your husbands working life?

Thank you

[thepeopleversuswork]

@ancientgran

Marriage is an insurance policy to protect the lower earning person in the partnership (usually the woman). It only makes sense to get married for the lower earning partner.

Historically in the vast majority of cases it benefited women more than men to get married. In practice these days more men may benefit from it because a higher proportion of women are financially autonomous.

But strip out the religious and romantic window-dressing and the purpose of it really is to protect women while they are unable to work. Generally speaking, the same does not apply to men. I would be very suspicious of a lower-earning man who doesn't look after children wanting to get married as it has no benefit for the woman whatsoever.

TBH if more women became financially independent the need for marriage would diminish significantly. Which wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion as it would encourage more women to look after their own economic interests.

[Warblerinwinter]

If I had been SAHM I would have only agreed if married, joint property deeds, and my husband paid me a “wage” and pension whilst I was not working externally. Being a SAHM involves hard work and I’d want to be paid for it in terms of my husband paying out of his salary into my account. And for him /us to ensure my pension contributions continued
But, I’d never have given up work fully anyway…you loose out on keeping a foot in the door. Not just divorce courts expect you to work, so does government for your state pension- once you kids are 11 any state pension credit stops . Always always plan to be back in work by time youngest is 11

[Ana27]

It's all very well to say don't be a SAHM but it sounds as if the OP is already in that position, has been a SAHM for some time and wants to know what steps to take now to protect herself.

OP - it sounds as if you are married, which gives you some protection. Is the house/significant assets in joint names? Do you have pension/savings/investments in your own name at all?

[ancientgran]

@DeepaBeesKit

*What surprises me most about this thread is you are saying you know lots of women in their 40s/50’s who are SAHM.
I’m in my 60’s and don’t have any friends/family members who haven’t worked after children. Even my mums generation who are now in their 80s /90’s worked at least part time.*

This. My mother is late 60s, she and all her friends worked. Most had between 5 & 10 years out of the workplace when children were very young but returned to full time work when the children started school.

I'm almost 70 and the same. I can't think of any women I know who haven't worked outside the home, even in my mother's generation. My grandmother, born in the 19th centure, and her mother worked but I do know of women in their generations who didn't.

[ancientgran]

@WaterBottle123

Previous posters are incorrect. ONLY marry if you are the LOWER earner and have no assets.

Under no circumstances give up your job or go part time whike he remains full time

ONLY marry if you are the LOWER earner and have no assets. Presumably that applies to men and women? I don't think there will be many weddings.

[thepeopleversuswork]

@CorvusPurpureus

This is a really good point. A higher-earning woman or one with assets should not get married.

But as you say in absolutely every scenario conceivable its a bad idea to be a SAHM.

[Opal8]

@Whingasaurus

And spousal maintenance is incredibly rare and difficult to enforce so don't bank on that

Oh know, but I'd give it a go 😊

[stalkersaga]

The most important thing is that your spouse fully supports the decision to be a SAHP, and clearly sees that this saves them making huge outlays for childcare etc.

Bit of a hollow argument past the first three years. Even very high earners get 15 funded hours at 3 and wraparound for school age children is less p/h than even a minimum wage job.

[CorvusPurpureus]

If you happen to be the higher earner:

1. don't get married
   
2. if you do, or even if you have dc with a long term dp, don't become a SAHM
   
3. OTOH, also don't allow dh/dp to become a SAHP if you can help it...or you'll quite possibly end up with dc who live mainly with your ex as 'main carer' post split whilst you see them EOW & half the holidays & pay maintenance. My ex was VERY keen on this idea.
   
4. if you are the one whose family are contributing to, say, a house deposit, get that ring-fenced (deed of trust). My ex also liked the idea of fucking off with half the money my dps had given us...
   
5. if you have savings/equity in a house & your dp doesn't, don't get married
   
6. if you have dc from a previous relationship & would like to see them OK financially in the event of your untimely demise a) don't get married & b) if you must, get a bloody clear will drawn up.
   
   Obviously, reverse all this if you're the lower earner...except the not being a SAHM bit. That's pretty much always going to be to your financial detriment in a split, tbh.

[CaliforniaDrumming]

In my case I ended up an SAHM for some years because DH got a high paying job that involved us moving overseas but also made it possible for us to have zero mortgage, educate DC and also allow both of us to retire at 55 ( a few yrs away)with a lifelong pension. I have my name on everything though.

[Whingasaurus]

And spousal maintenance is incredibly rare and difficult to enforce so don't bank on that

[Whingasaurus]

I'm on my sixties now and in my second very happy financially equal marriage. Firstly be a sahm if you want to but get recompense, allowance, wages call it what you like but get an offical amount and negotiate up with every rise, bonus he gets. If you dh has you on the books for tax purposes get the money, your money, paid to you. Make saving your hobby, shares, pension, premium bonds whatever. Know exactly what your dh earns and what he does with it, if you are a sahm it's your income too. Get a job as soon as dc are on full time school doesn't matter what or where or if its 2 hours a week it gives you a different outlook. Never ever trust man with your financial wellbeing. I went from a very very comfortable gold credit card life to sleeping on friends floors with 2 dc I'd never trust anyone.

[Opal8]

Here's the thing:
Most sahms are not so by choice (like me)
Those that are tend to be in the top earning brackets/independently wealthy

I've been a sahm with pockets of pt working when possible for 18 years now.

A combination of ill health, very poorly baby, surprise baby, dhs promotions and then now my ill health again has meant that I'm the sahp by default.

Not what I planned but 🤷‍♀️

What we/I have done to try and protect myself/assets:
GET MARRIED if you have children

1. Mortgage in both names and on the deeds
2. Tenants in common so should I kark it and my dh remarry my dc will get my half of the house equity/sale
3. Car in my name
4. Savings accounts/isas in my name
5. Joint account and personal account
6. Keep claiming CB as it will count towards your state pension
7. Have a running away fund
8. Don't ever assume it won't happen to you

Dh could cheat/leave but I would be entitled to half the house, CM until my youngest leaves school, half his (good) pension, half of all other assets jointly owned like the savings. I'd probably go for spousal Maintenance too 😊

[thepeopleversuswork]

@NotKnowingArseFromElbow

How do women get themselves in these situations??

I was a SAHM for many years but financially independent and married.

Multiple reasons:

Not being particularly interested in working and seeing marriage and children as an excuse to stop
Poor job opportunities
Controlling partners who want their partner to be at home
Finding the idea of being away from small children distressing
Thinking “love will conquer all”
“Traditional” values and the belief that children do better with a parent at home
Lack of ambition
Peer/family examples

Some of these have some superficial validity, others are dangerous or outdated.

But ultimately none of these trumps the importance of women and children being financially autonomous

[LocalHobo]

50's here, I was (still am I guess, although DC young adults now and only 1 at home) a SAHP. Most of my circle are the same, although two work about 10 hours per week and one has a home based job. I think, if you work full-time you are unlikely to come across SAHP hence you may feel we don't exist.

I agree that you need assets/income that could support two separate households without too much of an issue.
Ensure you pay your NI credits, make provision for a separate pension out of household income. All our accounts are in joint names so I have equal access to income, savings etc. I attend all meetings with our accountant so fully understand our financial situation.
The most important thing is that your spouse fully supports the decision to be a SAHP, and clearly sees that this saves them making huge outlays for childcare etc.

[CaliforniaDrumming]

Do you all not sign property deeds when you buy a house? When we did I made sure my name was on it and I had copies. Ditto all assets like shares, bonds and so on.

[DeepaBeesKit]

What surprises me most about this thread is you are saying you know lots of women in their 40s/50’s who are SAHM.
I’m in my 60’s and don’t have any friends/family members who haven’t worked after children. Even my mums generation who are now in their 80s /90’s worked at least part time.

This. My mother is late 60s, she and all her friends worked. Most had between 5 & 10 years out of the workplace when children were very young but returned to full time work when the children started school.

[ronniz]

I was a SAHM for many years but financially independent and married.

Well regardless of sex not many people are financially independent without working. Plus people trust & believe in their partners. One of my friends went through a recent divorce, I've known her DH for years. I was shocked (& I think I'm a good judge of character) how bitter & selfish he became. He changed personality completely.

[DeepaBeesKit]

Giving up work completely is a huge risk that I would never take.

If you insist upon being a SAHM:

• get married.
• everything in joint names
• ensure you have half any savings
• ensure your NI and pension contributions are made.

[NotKnowingArseFromElbow]

How do women get themselves in these situations??

I was a SAHM for many years but financially independent and married.

[sst1234]

@daisydoh

So many people saying don't be a SAHM but then women seem to be scorned at for wanting careers like men and using childcare to bring up the kids.

I guess you can't win.

Huh? It’s not the 50s when women were scorned. Not sure which circles you are mixing with, but no one bats an eyelid at full time mothers. In fact, it’s seen as a setting a good example to your children, especially daughters, to be a full time working mother.

[thepeopleversuswork]

@Fairyliz

What surprises me most about this thread is you are saying you know lots of women in their 40s/50’s who are SAHM.
I’m in my 60’s and don’t have any friends/family members who haven’t worked after children. Even my mums generation who are now in their 80s /90’s worked at least part time.
I assume this is because they have very high earnings partners so shouldn’t be so much of a problem in the case of a split?

Agree: among my cohort of friends (late 40s) I know only one SAHM, and that’s due to having two special needs children.

I do totally understand how it works with small kids but I find it bizarre that there are people in their 60s who have never worked.

[GoGoGretaDoll]

Apart from not being a SAHM in the first place, pay into your own pension fund, even if it's only a little bit of money.

Always view the money as 'ours', not his. I obviously don't have a crystal ball in terms of my marriage, but I know for a fact my husband wouldn't expect to walk away with his full pension etc - because I've always been very clear that the decisions we've made regarding my career have 100% enabled his career to flourish. He doesn't talk about 'his' money ever, it's 'ours'. I know that's no guarantee, but I think it's a reasonable predictor of future behaviour.

Become the financial controller. Know where the money is and how to get to it. A lot of men hide assets in divorce and get away with it because their wife doesn't actually know how much is in account A, account B, etc.

Think really carefully about your mortgage in slightly later life. What would happen if you had to sell everything tomorrow and divide it in half - would you be dividing profit or debt? I see a lot of ppl my age moving to massive houses with massive mortgages - I think if you can keep some assets liquid then that's easier to deal with.

[DrSbaitso]

It isn't just about SAHMs. If you work but earn a lot less than your partner, you'll still have to make a lot of adjustments. It'll certainly be easier, though.

[stalkersaga]

@Fairyliz

What surprises me most about this thread is you are saying you know lots of women in their 40s/50’s who are SAHM.
I’m in my 60’s and don’t have any friends/family members who haven’t worked after children. Even my mums generation who are now in their 80s /90’s worked at least part time.
I assume this is because they have very high earnings partners so shouldn’t be so much of a problem in the case of a split?

The women are still going to experience a massive drop in standard of living in that scenario. Unless their ex is Jeff Bezos. They might not be scraping to cover rent, but they won't be living like they were before.