AIBU to wonder why some girls do this? Is it bullying?

[FortunesFave]

DD is 13 and has a few good friends at school but is closest to two of them.

She's closer to one of the girls and we will call her Lizzie...the other girl we will call Anne...they all do things regularly together as a threesome and sometimes with others included.

DD and Lizzie do sometimes have sleepovers just the two of them. They've always done this as they've known one another since they were 3.

Both DD and Lizzie have also had sleepovers with Anne as a threesome and just two.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that DD and Lizzie do not leave Anne out ever apart from some sleepovers. I am good friends with Lizzies mum but also friends with Anne's...less close but we've not known one another as long.

It seems that lately, Anne has been mean at school. DD says she is mean to DD and to Lizzie but in different ways. She hides Lizzies things and makes a joke of it....or throws stuff to the boys knowing they will run off with it.

She says things loudly that Lizzie has told her in confidence...eg "OH YOU HAVE CRUSH ON JOHN!" when he's in earshot.

With DD she's snide...trying to make her do silly things and then calling her boring when she won't.

DD is at a loss because she and Lizzie genuinely like Anne when she isn't acting like this...she doesn't do it all the time.

They don't want to ditch her...saying it would be mean. They also don't want to confront her about it because they think she'll respond badly.

Anne doesn't really have many other friends...it's not enough to tell the teacher is it? They wouldn't anyway.

Sometimes, DD

[motherloaded]

@AryaStarkWolf

It isn't only girls btw, my DS has had a few snidey friends like that over the years too. But agree with others, she's clearly upset and feels a bit of a third wheel

exactly what I was going to write.

[Palavah]

They're all learning how to express themselves and navigate social relationships.

If they aren't willing to have a chat with her about it then they can each decide either to put up with it, retaliate or back off an ignore her, none of which is an especially mature choice.

[BListOrMaybeEvenZList]

I think also that it's important to bear in mind that you've only heard your DDs version of events. Maybe she and the other girl do act in a very cliquey way and do leave Anne out. Or your DD might be saying things/doing things too!

[zoemum2006]

Some of that stuff is just 'take it on the chin' but announcing things said in private would be a major shift from 'friend' to 'casual acquaintance'.

I couldn't be friends with someone I didn't trust and it's important to have boundaries.

[DeathStare]

I'm now on my third teenage DD and 13 year old girls' friendships are the worst- they are full of needless drama and can be downright cruel to each other.

One of my best friends is the headteacher in a secondary school and always says the biggest PITA is having to deal with constant friendship issues in year 9 girls.

Sorry that's no help, but this too shall pass!

[Thatisnotwhatisaid]

They do say three’s a crowd for a reason. Your DD and Lizzie are obviously best friends and have been for a very long time, Anne probably feels like the tag along.

[MargaretThursday]

I was always in a group of 3 at secondary.
There was always two who were slightly closer, but it varied which two. There was no nastiness with that that I ever noticed. We did things with just two, but generally because one couldn't make it. I don't think we often planned something with just the two unless it was due to something else (the other two lived near each other so it was more convenient for them to meet up, and sometimes there were things in their village that they'd both be going to and meet up there).

I wonder what Anne's take on it is. Because it seems odd that if they're her main friends she's picking on both of them. I'd expect her to either go off, or pick on one and try and be over friendly with the other.

I suspect that they may be unintentionally making her feel left out. It's easy to do if they've done something together out of school, just mention the fact they've had a sleepover and that it was such fun etc. So DD and Lizzie do not leave Anne out ever apart from some sleepovers can turn into being "oh we watched this film at the sleepover..." followed by long discussion of film that Anne can't join in with. They may not see that as leaving her out, but if she's feeling raw then it will feel as though they're rubbing her face in it.
A five minute conversation you are enjoying can seem a brief mention. A five minute conversation that already feels a snub can feel like it's deliberately done and go on for hours.
So they may feel they're hardly mentioning it. She may feel that they go on about it all the time.

[maxelly]

I think the simple answer is, they're 13! Such a horrible age, puberty and the flood of emotions associated with growing up, trying to find your place in the world with friendships, school, boys etc tends to lead to plenty of silly attention seeking behaviour. 'Anne' is probably feeling a variety of semi-irrational things including realising she's a slightly awkward 3rd in your DD and 'Lizzie''s very close friendship, wanting to be popular and fit in with other girls, suddenly feeling the need to impress/show off to the boys and not knowing how, maybe even feeling as though she's outgrown your DD and/or 'Lizzie' but not knowing how exactly to gracefully exit the friendship and move on - these are all things that frankly as grown women can be hard to navigate in a kind and mature fashion so it's hardly surprising that young kids can struggle and end up hurting others on the way... I wouldn't call it intentional bullying, more being selfish and inconsiderate of others feelings (which can of course be really painful to be on the receiving end of as well).

So that's not to say that your DD shouldn't be able to tell 'Anne' when she's being annoying or hurtful, I would get her to practice calmly saying things like 'I don't like it when you call me boring, that isn't very kind' or 'It doesn't make me want to spend time with you when you do things like throw my pencil case around, that is silly/hurtful behaviour' and walking away from and deescalate situations which are getting over-dramatic and upsetting (I'm afraid there tend to be many such through the teenage years).

Also I'd prepare yourself and your DD for the fact that as they become teenagers/go through secondary school friendship groups do naturally change and evolve, there will be things like new interests, people wanting to explore new friendships, 'relationships' with boys getting in the way - it's a normal part of growing up, so while she's absolutely right to not leave people out, sometimes some friendships will drift and that's OK. Yes some people do have the same exact group of 'best friends' from primary school for life, but I would say that's the exception not the norm so she shouldn't feel bad or guilty or as though there's anything wrong with her if this happens.

Good luck, navigating friendship dramas was probably my least fav thing about the teenage years!

[skirk64]

Perhaps don't phrase it this way, but they should "ditch the bitch." It's not "mean" or "cunty" to ditch her, it's just a part of growing up - kids grow apart from their friends all the time.

[Mrsjayy]

13/14 was the most difficult part of parenting honestly it was exhausting !

[caringcarer]

I would tell my dd to point out to Anne at the time her behaviour is hurtful not funny.

[Mrsjayy]

She is jealous and acting out she knows your DD and Lizzie are tighter friends she is feeling hurt and left out it can turn nasty and in my limited experience of 2, Dds friendships at this age can be fraught I didn't have any solutions back then unfortunately just let them get on with it and step in when it gets too much,is what I did.

[JonSnowedUnder]

Most teenagers go through periods of being annoying, either to parents, friends, siblings. Sounds like this girl is pushing it, it could become bullying and nasty behaviour or maybe she will mellow but I think the best thing you can do is focus on your daughters reactions. Your dd doesn't have to tolerate someone being horrible to her but at the same time she will come up against awkward people in her life so this is a good time to start practicing boundaries.

[Iminaglasscaseofemotion]

When there's 3 close friends I think it can be really difficult for them when one gets left out. You say they don't leave her out, but then say they have sleepovers in 2s so maybe they do a bit at school aswell without realising.
She could just not be a very nice person, or she could be taking feelings from other situations out on her friends.

[AryaStarkWolf]

It isn't only girls btw, my DS has had a few snidey friends like that over the years too. But agree with others, she's clearly upset and feels a bit of a third wheel

[Notimeforaname]

Leave them to it. This how kids learn how to deal with difficult people and social situations.

[BListOrMaybeEvenZList]

I'd guess that your DD and Lizzie have a very tight friendship and that Anne feels left out.

[Maves]

She's turned into a Frenemy. A lot of it is just juvenile shit but if they've told her to stop and it's upsetting them they need to tell her. Could the other two be more cliquey than you know maybe jealous in all fairness 3 is always v5 going to be a crowd when it comes to girls.

[Cial]

I’m not sure how the sleepovers are relevant.

Why don’t you just tell them to say at the time she’s actually rude - would you mind not doing that, I know you probably don’t know it hurts me but it does. A confrontation doesn’t need to be angry or aggressive. She needs to be given the opportunity to change.

Then if she doesn’t stop then that’s when they need to consider if the friendship is worth it - because she’s likely doing it on purpose to be spiteful.

[Yesmate]

She fees left out. Friendship groups of three are really hard, someone always gets left out.