Re DD and our shambolic bedtimes?

[WinningTheThread]

DD is 11 and has ASD. She is emotionally very immature but frankly I feel is taking the utter piss at bedtime (unintentionally but still so very infuriating!).

I’m to bed early each night myself as I have to be up early for work so I have a limited amount of me time ... which she keeps taking up each and every night. I have had enough!

She wants me to get in her bed every night to cuddle . I don’t mind this and do it but sometimes I’m just too bloody knackered and I just want to go to bed myself.

She repeatedly asks for hugs and kisses. Repeatedly! She has me back and forth like a damned yo-yo giving her kisses and hugs. When I point out that she’s already had a hug and a kiss , she goes on and on, cries, shouts the house down and it goes on for hours.

Or she will shout for other things that she “needs” right that second. Again, it drags on and on if she doesn’t get it.

She will shout of me to come up again and when I’m clearly cross she will say “it doesn’t matter... you’re angry anyway “. I’ll go back down only for her to shout again because she needs me to do what she originally shouted of me for!

She then starts the same process with DH.

Last night I had already given her two hugs and kisses , about 15 minutes apart and as I had got in to bed she shouted again. I said no that’s enough and an hour later she was still screaming about it . When she’s upset she becomes volatile and tells me I hate her or that I’m ruining her life (I get this and more , daily) I ended up leaving DH to deal with it and went out for a drive .

She suffers with bad anxiety so this upset her more but I was about to blow my lid so I wanted to just get out for a bit . This is every damned night!

WIBU for not just giving her the kiss and hug? I’m so torn between anger and guilt I can’t work out if AIBU?

Please be gentle. Life is very tough at the minute

[Profilejacket]

Wish me luck-tonight 11 year old dd is in her own bed, alone with a big rolled up blanket sprayed with my perfume!
First time in months.
Ridiculous that we’re still in this situation at this age but it is what it is!

[TheVeryThing]

Sympathy from me too, op. I have an almost 10 year old with ASD and I stay with him until he's asleep, by which time I have usually fallen asleep too. He looks for me during the night also so I bought him a double bed and just sleep with him all night.
Our bedtime routine involves a race to get into pyjamas (the only way I can get him to do it himself), carefully arranging 30ish soft toys and various blankets at the end of the bed, two episodes of Phineas & Ferb on my laptop, and then he talks to me about Minecraft until he goes to sleep.
The only thing he allows DH to do is brush his teeth. It's bloody exhausting but I don't know how to change it as he is shoots down any suggestions that don't come from him.
I wish I knew the answer but you're not alone. I hope some of the suggestions on here will help.

[Ifixfastjets]

Another thing that helps dd is her fitbit style watch.
She likes to see how long she has slept. And compare to last night etc.
It also helps wear her out, during the day.
Counts her steps. She always tries to get her 10k steps in.
It's also " for grown ups really" as its plain black.

[Ifixfastjets]

Social story and tick off is a great idea.
One thing that helps my dd is an old -rag- tee shirt of mine, to shove her face into.
I pretended it was my favourite, very special.... top. Washed it. Wore it. Sprayed my perfume on to it. So it smelled of "me".
I then said if she was very grown up, super brave. She could look after this special top of mine. She still sleeps with "pinky" now. After 7 years, it's a bit worse for wear. But she loves it!
And she sleeps with it. If she is upset about something, she will wear it as a night, for an "all over cuddle"
It's an easy thing to try. If you don't have a spare tee, buy a cheap one. Supermarket. Charity shop. Find something with a nice picture on? Tiger face? Sunset? Motorbike? Anything you can pass off as special!

[jeaux90]

My DD is 11 is also a bit immature for her age and has ADHD and ASD.

Your situation is so so familiar.

I'm a single mum so it's slightly different dynamics and there are no other siblings.

I co-slept for years but then a couple of years ago I bought a small double bed for her. We always make sure the room is tidy (anxious otherwise) have a conversation about what's happening tomorrow etc then we watch a short YouTube video together in bed before she settles down.

I massage her feet most nights before I get in with her to watch the video. I know this is indulgent of me but it really helps her relax.

Honestly this has all worked. She rarely calls out now.

[DungeonKeeper]

I’ve heard of the suggestion of writing a contract, so a bedtime routine that the two of you come up with together that she has to sign. And because she will have signed it she has to follow it through, in theory I’ve not tried it yet!

[ThePontiacBandit]

Have you read “The explosive child” by Ross Greene? This is what prompted our changes at bedtime. It helps you identify what the key issues are and a strategy for how to approach them. We found it really helpful.

[user1471548941]

During the day, not at bedtime agree the routine with her. Explain that you need an evening time/to go to bed yourself/can’t just run about after her but that you want a bedtime routine she is happy with.

Agree the process maybe working backwards e.g. no disturbing you after 9pm so that means all hugs kisses must be done before then. 30 mins reading before sleep so she must be in her room reading by 8.30pm. You can provide hugs/kisses before she reads and after but not in between/after 9pm. Clearly explain that you love her and actually making sure she gets a good night’s sleep/bedtime routine is also part of expressing love for her, not just hugs and kisses.

Write it down, agree it together, do the the same thing every single night. If she makes a fuss, remind her that hugs and kisses aren’t the only way to show love.

I am autistic and find it verrry hard to process new information about emotions/social scenarios when presented to me in the heat of the moment. If this is explained to me in advance, it goes in a lot easier. I also love routine and find it hugely comforting and makes me feel “safe” but I lack the skills to put the process in place myself so I need help to do this.

[ThePontiacBandit]

We had similar with DD (8yo)...except she could come in to us multiple times each night. We suspect she might be on the spectrum (I am), not been assessed as yet. We changed things up. We are trying melatonin. Key seems to be to give it about an hour before we aim to get her to sleep. We now stay in with her, we do some kind of bed time story - we use Headspace and New Horizon stories. Same as pp Keep trying the Smiling Mind / Head space stuff. My 14yo only ever found one she liked (Cat Marina on Headspace) and it's like magic. She's funny now, says she doesn't want it on as she's pissed it works so well. DD doesn’t love it but she does settle. We now stay in til she’s nearly asleep. Process takes up to an hour so we alternate but to us it’s better than being interrupted multiple times and her refusing to sleep.

[TheGumption]

Sorry I haven't read all replies so I may just be repeating things but I recommend social story for the bedtime routine and then broken record. So work through the social story together so she knows what will happen, do the bedtime routine and then every further interaction is met with "it's bed time now".
The first few nights with my son were quite tough, he tried negotiation, explosive outbursts etc.
Then it clicked and he embraced the routine and it has been okay since. He was younger that your DD, about 6 but I think it could work for an older child. The senco at his school showed us what to do and it totally transformed our lives at bedtimes.

[Angrypregnantlady]

Is she scared of being alone at night?
An amber nightlight might help, or reading. It's hard to expect kids to sleep alone, I still sleep terribly if DH isn't in bed with me

[TokyoSushi]

@SunshineLollipopsRainbow

I've seen a method used, I haven't used it myself as my child is too young but it might help.
Give her 3 'call back passes so that's 3 times she can call you back for whatever she wants. When you go back you collect one of the passes and if she uses all 3 you don't return. In the morning see how many passes she still has. Set a prize for her holding onto x amount of passes. You'll probably find she uses them all to begin but the aim is that she calls you less so she holds onto her passes to win prize.

This is a good idea!

Sounds really difficult OP, hope you manage to work it out.

[Chrysanthemum5]

I think some of the answers are from parents who don't have children with ASD so (understandably) they are offering solutions about being firm etc which don't really work. However there is some use in thinking about setting clear expectations because many children with ASD do need that certainty in order to feel safe. With DD we have an agreed plan about when she will switch off her devices - and then she has strict rules around what she can accept eg I have to watch TV for 30 minutes with her and then she will brush her teeth etc. So it's about finding a solution you can all live with - but I do try to not give on to all her anxieties as I know she wants to do things like sleepovers (when allowed!) which aren't possible unless she can manage night time without me or her dad

[GrolliffetheDragon]

When she shows she can get to sleep 'on time' or within 15 mins of getting into bed then she can go to bed later.

Can you go to sleep on demand like that? I can't and couldn't as a child either.

[DungeonKeeper]

Oh I feel your pain OP. We go through similar with my DS who also has asd. I have to sit with him every night until he’s tired enough. We have tried everything apart from melatonin.

I’m fed up to the back teeth of people suggesting reward charts, marble jars, etc etc. Tried the whole fucking lot.

[Chrysanthemum5]

My 13 year old DD is similar and has ASD. We've gone through long periods of having to cuddle her to sleep, sleeping on her floor, sitting on the stairs for hours, getting up to reassure her up to 10 times etc so I feel your pain. DH and I have tried so hard to be kind and supportive but sometimes when you're getting no sleep it's unbearable and we have shouted and said things we shouldn't have. It's hard not to see it as just unkindness or messing about. I even tried telling DD about how much sleep adults need and it didn't help.

We saw an occupational therapist who specialises in autism and she said that night time can be very hard for people with ASD as they are alone with their thoughts. So during the day they can distract themselves but at night their thoughts come crowding in and it causes anxiety.

DD was fine with sleeping while she shared a room with her brother and she's fine if someone else is in the room. She's more challenging at bedtime for me than for DH but she has a different relationship with me and I can't leave it all to DH. The GP prescribed melatonin but she won't take it. Calm sounds didn't help she won't have anything plugged in over night so we could use Alexa etc for sounds (plus she hates 'airy fairy' stuff as she calls it!

Some things which helped:
A ladder chart where our goals was that she went to bed completely on her own. Each rung of the ladder is a step towards that with a little reward.

Cards against anxiety - it's £6 in the works. It's a set of cards with anxiety reducing strategies (plus a book with info on each strategy) DD will pick a random number and we will do whatever is on that card.

DD deciding on her own that she wanted to be 'grown up' and so she's moving slowly towards the top of her 'ladder' - you need to accept there will be set backs. DD watched a scary film yesterday online with her friends as she was too anxious to say no and so I spent most of last night in her room!

Anyway, you're not the only one

[UhtredRagnarson]

Don’t feel bad OP. You’re exhausted. It’s horrible being constantly “on” with a SN child. You’re doing you’re very best for her.

[WinningTheThread]

Thanks everyone .

On reflection I feel terrible now as a pp pointed out that it is a need to control things and I feel I’ve let her down by not giving in.

I could only live in the moment and I had just had enough of years and years of this nonsense. Her behaviour through the day is similar and I’m just exhausted with it.

I never get an evening to myself because I have to give all three children the same as each other . If one gets an extra hug, the other two want them. I know they doesn’t sound horrific but I spend hours going from room to room repeating the things I’ve already done!

She will also shout even if I’ve told her very clearly I am going to sleep ; she’s woken me up on many occasions just as I’m drifting off. I’m then very cranky because I’m so sick of the constant interruptions!

The pp who suggested Alexa .... she had one but we removed it because if we didn’t come up when she shouted she just started announcing via Alexa and disturbing the whole household.

I’ve explained to her that I understand she is worried and she needs certain things at times but also that I am only human and I find it hard sometimes to keep up with her demands!

Today I will design a social story and explain exactly what is going to happen at bedtime. The pass ideas are a good idea but unfortunately wouldn’t work for her or us. All the children would expect passes .

[DarkMatterA2Z]

Though should say we don't have the ASD complication here so no experience of whether the "mean" approach is appropriate in your circumstances. But it's worked for us.

[DarkMatterA2Z]

I have a much younger child but I'm afraid I've become very stern (and a little shouty) around bedtimes lately as they were mucking around, banging on walls, calling out and taking toys into their bed. This seems to have done the trick. Occasionally there is a quiet request for a drink or a cuddle, which I just give quickly and don't make a big thing of, but otherwise they have to stay in their room and be quiet and they know I will go and do other things. I remind them if they're anxious that I will come back and check on them in a few minutes (by which time they're normally asleep). Sleep is precious and learning to fall asleep by yourself is an important skill, so imo definitely worth being a bit unpleasant even if you feel like the world's worst mum until the message gets through.

[rainbowlou]

I had a child similar (not asd but had been through trauma)
She starting going to bed wearing my dressing gown which helped a lot.

[lollipoprainbow]

@Sickoffamilydrama my ASD daughter loves her bed too thankfully! Once she is finally asleep she is asleep all night.

[mealsonwheelz]

All sounding depressingly familiar... asd DS 10 is terrible at going to sleep and worse now after the last year... takes hours.

[Sickoffamilydrama]

My DD has ASD I recognise the shouting & shouting until she gets an answer usually it's me being helping wash her hair but can be anything. I've explained multiple times about waiting or trying herself but come to realise she's so hyperfocused she can't do that I imagine your DD behaviour could be similar.

Luckily she is the only child with ASD I know who loves sleep! But her brother more than makes up for it.

[wejammin]

We had big issues with our autistic and PDA 9 year old at bedtime, his anxiety meant he was very disruptive when we were trying to settle his younger siblings.
Things are (currently!) a lot better and thorough a process of trial and error, what has worked for us is -
Magnesium muscle rub spray and bath salts
His own Alexa in his room - this does a number of things, firstly he can listen to his favourite music and podcasts about his special interests, secondly it has reminders on it for when to brush teeth, get uniform out etc, and thirdly he can 'drop in' on our downstairs Alexa whilst I'm tidying up to have a quick chat rather than me going up and down the stairs every 2 mins. These have all really helped with his anxiety.
If he 'behaves himself' for 2 nights (lets me read to his brother and sister, no door kicking, no major disruptions), on the second night he's allowed back down once fully ready for bed to watch 'the chase' with me (his choice!) - this is a huge treat and seems to be the motivation he needed to make bedtimes better.

This may all be totally unusable for your family but thought I'd share in case of any use.