To think fuck you to those living in big houses who are following the rules?

[Hammyhamster92]

I have noticed swathe of happily married friends, in jobs they could do from home, in big houses with big gardens bitching about people not following the covid rules.

There seems to be no sympathy from these people that a large number of people not following the rules are, ( from personal experiences I know of)

1. Sharing a one bedroom flat with their two children, and no garden.
   
   
2. Living in a shared HMO where the landlord has turned the living room into another bedroom and there isno garden and no communal area.
   
   
3. Living with violent, abusive, toxic people.
   
   
4. Are bereaved.
   
   
5. Are unable to share or bubble with their partner, but don't feel they should have no contact for months.
   
   I had a massive row with a friend today, ( call her lucy). Lucy asked what I was doing for the weekend, and I said I was going to visit ( "charlotte") as Charlotte has had a very horrible bereavment recently, ( cousin she was very close to died unexpectedly in a road accident) and was really struggling and has asked for a visit.
   
   Consequently , I've been called all the names under the sun, I'm selfish/ horrible etc, and more so because I have to travel by train, ( I can't drive for medical reasons). Utterly sick of this shit, and it seems that some people who are living in a middle class bubble of perfection can't imagine the difficulties lockdown has caused others.

[PerveenMistry]

@ThereOnceWasANote

My mum lives in a tiny retirement flat by herself and follows the rules, probably in part because she is afraid for herself. I suspect those who don't follow the rules probably don't believe that they will be one of the people it kills. And, as nobody will ever be able to trace any deaths they cause back to them directly, they don't really accept that they could be killing someone else. So they don't see any consequences from rule breaking.
So they come on threads like this, trying to whip up sympathy for their decisions to see family and friends.

Yes.

All of the "it's up to everyone to decide what risk they can handle" bullshit ignores that they are endangering the rest of us with their self-indulgent ways.

[jellybe]

Lucy sounds like a nob. Obviously we all want to stick to the rules but at the same time we have to think about each other's mental health and weigh up the pros and cons of sticking to those rules. In your case I'd say it's more than justified to go and see your friend. Ignore Lucy.

[jessstan2]

ThereOnceWasANote:
Your mum is very sensible. Retirement flats, as I understand it, usually have a bit of pleasant outside space and there is someone on hand if a resident needs help. It's good to know she is keeping to the guidelines. I too am not going out.

[ThereOnceWasANote]

My mum lives in a tiny retirement flat by herself and follows the rules, probably in part because she is afraid for herself. I suspect those who don't follow the rules probably don't believe that they will be one of the people it kills. And, as nobody will ever be able to trace any deaths they cause back to them directly, they don't really accept that they could be killing someone else. So they don't see any consequences from rule breaking.
So they come on threads like this, trying to whip up sympathy for their decisions to see family and friends.

[LucieStar]

@TigsytheTiger

Surely, it's not as simple as this?

A large house and garden may make it physically easier to cope with lockdown, but mentally it's about your internal make up and how you deal with it.

Some people in both large and small houses, will find it tough but find a dig deep and get on with it mentality and equally others despite what it may appear they have or haven't got materially struggle with their mental health during lockdown.

I don't generalisations help anyone, as a PP said, it's not a barrel of laughs for anyone and I feel for anyone struggling with their mental health whether they live in a mansion or a bed sit. It's not my place to judge who anyone.

All of this.

[bjjgirl]

Think you could have worded it better but I do understand your point, I live rurally and am thankful each day I have my garden / house as I sympathise with those who struggle in different accommodation.

I often think of London and the price of studio flats (which would cost more than my detached house) and wonder how I would cope.

It's very difficult for people to empathise with the other side / view point. I have seen so many devastating effects of both COVID and the lockdown,

[lazylinguist]

When the govt instruction was STAY HOME who would have found it easier? Who would be more likely to have ended up going for more than one walk a day? Would I have been right to judge someone in a bedsit for breaking the rules by going out twice, when I had my garden to spend as much outdoor time as I wanted, in? That's fundamentally what this OP is about.

Then that's what the OP should have said, instead of starting a thread about her friend (who happens to have a big house) being horrible to her, and for extrapolating that therefore people in big houses don't understand that (where things like underlying mental health etc are equal) it's much easier to stick to lockdown rules if you live in a decent-sized house with a garden. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to already know that, and it's been widely discussed and acknowledged on MN and in the media in general.

[TigsytheTiger]

Excuse typos, on my phone and my glasses need a clean!

[jessstan2]

[quote LucieStar]@saraclara

Incidentally, if the title of the thread and others' contributions had been more along the lines of what you have said - which is essentially that personal difficulties can often be amplified by poorer living conditions - then I'd have come on here with a whole different approach and level of empathy and understanding.

Forgive me but, when the starting point is "fuck you to this entire group of people" - you don't exactly come at it with bucket loads of empathy. [/quote]
Yes!

[TigsytheTiger]

Surely, it's not as simple as this?

A large house and garden may make it physically easier to cope with lockdown, but mentally it's about your internal make up and how you deal with it.

Some people in both large and small houses, will find it tough but find a dig deep and get on with it mentality and equally others despite what it may appear they have or haven't got materially struggle with their mental health during lockdown.

I don't generalisations help anyone, as a PP said, it's not a barrel of laughs for anyone and I feel for anyone struggling with their mental health whether they live in a mansion or a bed sit. It's not my place to judge who anyone.

[LucieStar]

@sassbott

Maybe if there’s a third wave. We should make it means tested. If you’re a higher level tax payer, stocks and chains can be installed by the government in your spacious garden.

Bunch of hypocrites on this thread. For the vast majority of this pandemic mnet has been a frothing pool of virtuous ‘don’t break the rules.’

But suddenly in the context of someone breaking the rules and the Op broadly telling everyone in large houses ‘fuck you’, the people in the large houses have become ‘Lucy’ and the poor OP (who is breaking covid rules and advertising it) is perfectly reasonable.

Fuck me.

You couldn't make it up.

[LucieStar]

@saraclara

Incidentally, if the title of the thread and others' contributions had been more along the lines of what you have said - which is essentially that personal difficulties can often be amplified by poorer living conditions - then I'd have come on here with a whole different approach and level of empathy and understanding.

Forgive me but, when the starting point is "fuck you to this entire group of people" - you don't exactly come at it with bucket loads of empathy.

[LucieStar]

@saraclara

Yes they are - if practical space, more rooms to go into, and a garden space are adequate solutions to your specific problems. However when your problems go beyond that (as most people's do); having an extra room in the house to sit in and ponder / overthink / cry about that problem, does very little to help you feel better. Trust me.

You have that the wrong way round *@LucieStar*. Your house and garden won't necessarily make you feel better. But living in a tiny bedsit will make you feel very much worse. Surely you can see that?

Seriously, I wish I could put a photo up of the 'studio' that the mother and baby I'm supporting through my volunteering, are living in. It sums it up. It is eight feet wide and I estimate 12' long, plus a tiny shower room and an entrance hall that I could reach my arms out and touch both walls. Oh, and with a window on to a wall.

Tell me things that trouble you wouldn't feel far worse if that was your life, than they do/would in your home and mine. Tell me she doesn't run a massively higher risk of PND living there (on top of the troubles that led her to have to be emergency housed, alone) than she would in our homes.

I have that the wrong way round?

If that's the key message here then, why haven't other posters phrased their own contributions that way? Why haven't they mostly said "you can have problems in both types of housing but surely you'll feel worse in a smaller house"? Instead we've seen variations of "yes it's always the ones in bigger houses who judge... easy for them to judge, nothing to worry about in their big houses", etc.

Other people's contributions to this thread (including the very title of the OP!) have made this "the wrong way around".

If you can't see why a title and generalised comments such as that are offensive to those of us who've equally struggled (as well as found it in us to help those less fortunate too), but just so happen to live in larger homes, I'm not sure what else to say.

[jessstan2]

I get what people are saying about it being more comfortable having other rooms and some outside space but is that any reason to resent people who have that and saying they can eff off? We have to deal with things as they are, good and bad.

[saraclara]

The people in large houses are only seem as Lucy by the OP. Some of us are simply trying to make the point that those of us who are fortunate in our environments should maybe be grateful for small mercies rather than judge those who aren't so lucky for (minor, largely risk free) breaches of the guidelines that we have no need to break.

[sassbott]

Maybe if there’s a third wave. We should make it means tested. If you’re a higher level tax payer, stocks and chains can be installed by the government in your spacious garden.

Bunch of hypocrites on this thread. For the vast majority of this pandemic mnet has been a frothing pool of virtuous ‘don’t break the rules.’

But suddenly in the context of someone breaking the rules and the Op broadly telling everyone in large houses ‘fuck you’, the people in the large houses have become ‘Lucy’ and the poor OP (who is breaking covid rules and advertising it) is perfectly reasonable.

Fuck me.

[Sirzy]

But why do we need to compete? Why can we not just accept that things are shit for lots of people and support each other rather than always looking for a reason to say “but x has it some much worse”

It is perfectly possible to realise others are in a shit situation while also feeling shit about your own situation

[saraclara]

When the govt instruction was STAY HOME who would have found it easier? Who would be more likely to have ended up going for more than one walk a day? Would I have been right to judge someone in a bedsit for breaking the rules by going out twice, when I had my garden to spend as much outdoor time as I wanted, in?

That's fundamentally what this OP is about.

[saraclara]

Yes they are - if practical space, more rooms to go into, and a garden space are adequate solutions to your specific problems. However when your problems go beyond that (as most people's do); having an extra room in the house to sit in and ponder / overthink / cry about that problem, does very little to help you feel better. Trust me.

You have that the wrong way round @LucieStar. Your house and garden won't necessarily make you feel better. But living in a tiny bedsit will make you feel very much worse. Surely you can see that?

Seriously, I wish I could put a photo up of the 'studio' that the mother and baby I'm supporting through my volunteering, are living in. It sums it up. It is eight feet wide and I estimate 12' long, plus a tiny shower room and an entrance hall that I could reach my arms out and touch both walls. Oh, and with a window on to a wall.

Tell me things that trouble you wouldn't feel far worse if that was your life, than they do/would in your home and mine. Tell me she doesn't run a massively higher risk of PND living there (on top of the troubles that led her to have to be emergency housed, alone) than she would in our homes.

[jessstan2]

The Lucy business has nothing to do with housing; Lucy is a tactless idiot. However, the op didn't have to tell her. It's often better to keep things to yourself.

[LucieStar]

@tangerinelollipop

honestly saying you wouldn't rather be having a crap time in a big house than in a small one

This is probably the only factually correct statement in the whole thread. And even then, some could say it's relative, as a larger house means higher costs and more maintenance (what happens if your income has been reduced or you are CEV and can get no one in to help?)

So yes, the insult on the thread's title is very rude and please stop using the word 'privileged' as it's offensive too

Agreed.

I also don't buy this "if your house is larger of course your own person struggles are easier to manage". Rubbish.

Yes they are - if practical space, more rooms to go into, and a garden space are adequate solutions to your specific problems. However when your problems go beyond that (as most people's do); having an extra room in the house to sit in and ponder / overthink / cry about that problem, does very little to help you feel better. Trust me.

[LucieStar]

I’d suggest Lucy’s stance relates more to her than the size of her house

Agreed - which appears to have been lost on many people. She's a judgemental and unpleasant person. Such people live in small and large houses, believe it or not.

[TillyTopper]

You're making it into a competition that no one will "win". Your friend has a big house/garden and wfh and you therefore see her life as "easy", you feel you trump that with you friend who has had a bereavement.

It's quite easy to get into these arguments. Personally if I am going to do something that may contravene rules I say nothing, but do it anyway. I've been seeing my Dad all through lockdown, we knew he was going to die anyway (which he did in December) so he and I wanted to spend time together. We both took steps to prevent me getting CV19 and passing it to him. If people asked if what I was doing on a weekend I went to see him I'd reply "oh you know, not much, baking a cake maybe, tidying the spare room ha ha". Job done.

[LucieStar]

Is it really any wonder we have such a mental health issue in this country when people are still so quick to assume that because someone has money or space then all must be hunky dory in their world and they should just stop complaining.

Why do we need to have a race to the bottom? Why do we need so much comparison and looking for reason why someone should be grateful rather than accepting everyone will be struggling in their own way.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[LucieStar]

What people have said is that if you're going through trauma in your life, it's awful. But even worse if you are living in a confined space with no outdoor access.

Some people have said that. As I pointed out earlier, however, others have made sweeping generalisations about "privileged" people. I copied and pasted the relevant quotes - I'm not making it up.