AIBU to be sick of privileged, older white men - join my tiny rant!

[windygallows]

Yup I'm probably unreasonable but I just want to put out there how sick I am of working with privileged, older white men - 40 plus and often 'posh'.

They dominate the upper echelons of the organization I work in as well as all the organizations I liaise with. Some are very good but many aren't due their seniority nor are they that smart - but they are well spoken and confident so whatever they say comes across as read. Their smuggery is driven by their high self regard and knowledge that they are 'where they belong'.

And despite their seniority they are often mollycoddled and supported by (usually female) PAs and completely enabled by wives at home who have been supporting them for 20+ years to the point that they take all the support for granted. They are so enabled that all they have to do is go to work and everything else is sorted for them - it's kind of a carefree oblivion they hold and thus they are completely oblivious to the challenges that others (e.g. women) face in their day to day lives.

I see this male privilege everywhere and everyday. In my boss who is completely self absorbed and with a family set up that enables and supports the fact that he is Number one. In other work scenarios, like when I was interviewed last week by a panel of important men + one woman from HR brought in to balance out the panel. I see 'important white men' driving fast in their cars, beeping up behind me in the fast lane as they need to go to their important meeting. Male privilege is everywhere and am sick of it.

From age 50 (my age) the number of women in the workforce starts to drop significantly and I'm wondering if it's because they're just sick of working with the men I describe!

I can't be the only person to feel this way. Please join me in this tiny rant!

[Quietrebel]

I'm appalled at the casual way that these privileges are ingrained in every day life. An actual male adult is a rare sight.

[Quietrebel]

OP
I applaud your lucidity.

[PebbleDashed]

"Men don't have to represent their entire sex." Quite. In fact we're positively discouraged from doing so. NAMALT. Look at the number of current 'safeguarding' programs specifically designed to address the issue that women can be violent and dangerous too, in the face of the statistical known truth that men are much much more so.

[EBearhug]

People don't even realise that they regard a man's cock up as a 'mistake' and exactly the same cock up by a woman as evidence of her incompetency.

And the unsuitability for all other women in that role. Men don't have to represent their entire sex.

[thehorseandhisboy]

Yes, it's trying to get the everyday sexism acknowledged that's so draining.

People don't even realise that they regard a man's cock up as a 'mistake' and exactly the same cock up by a woman as evidence of her incompetency.

Trying to point this out opens one to allegations of pettiness imvhe.

[EBearhug]

I think it's a bad idea to start declaring that you dislike any group of people, be it those of a specific age, ethnicity, gender, religion or any other characteristic. It's stereotyping and for that I think YABU.

I am very fond of many of my male colleagues. We've worked together for a long time. But as a class, they do have privilege and there is still a lot of unconscious bias in the way different people are treated as groups. Blatant sexism, while it does still happen, is easier to call out, and there are more legal protections than 40 years ago, but it is a lot harder to combat the unconscious stuff, mostly because it tends to be systemic and not overt. "He's great, he had 3 papers published last year," vs "She's not great, she only had 3 papers published last year." Being judged differently for the same behaviours, bossy vs managerial, that sort of thing. The power structures are there and they mostly support the status quo. Which means men.

[EBearhug]

I'm too loud, that I am too reactive, that I'm too conflictive
Too aggressive, not grateful enough...

[MemoryOfSleep]

I think it's a bad idea to start declaring that you dislike any group of people, be it those of a specific age, ethnicity, gender, religion or any other characteristic. It's stereotyping and for that I think YABU.

However, YANBU to be fed up of your specific colleagues, or the attitudes that some of them hold.

[windygallows]

Love you GoldenPomBear

[GoldenPomBearBadge]

You called?

[user1499173618]

As a more senior female colleague I was asked to give junior colleagues instruction about the expected standards of self-presentation. Which they couldn’t afford (and didn’t have time for).

[user1499173618]

In two offices I’ve worked in where partners were earning squillions, junior female employees were criticised for not maintaining the standards of grooming and sartorial elegance that were only compatible with huge amounts of spare cash.

[user1499173618]

Yes.

I was also reprimanded for speaking English to an American female colleague in a casual, private conversation (of no consequence - hi how are you sort of stuff). We were working in a European office of an American company and half our work was done in English...

[IWriteCode]

user, I was marked down because my also Mediterranean colleague and I spoke to each other in a way that others interpreted as arguing (you know, lots of arm waving and flair)

[user1499173618]

Holding outsiders to impossible standards - I was once marked down in a performance review because my English wasn’t Belgian enough...

[cucumbergin]

WriteSpeakCode Yes. Holding women (and minorities) to higher, impossible standards is one way to keep lucrative professions white, male, and middle class. It's gaslighting par excellence - hard to argue against "too loud" "too conflictive" when it's "what I say is too loud is too loud". (And it fecking hurts!)

[user1499173618]

I outsource my ironing. It’s done at my local dry cleaning shop, to a very high standard, by trained professionals with good working conditions and proper terms of employment. I am happy to support the economy in this way.

[TheSocraticMethod]

I'm not sure if understand the problem with the skin colour ? Would it be ok if they were brown men ? I can understand wanting to see a better share of power with females.

I wonder if Brexit will stop the demographic changes here that will happen in Europe. Already in 100 years time countries that were "built by white men" will not be white majority countries anymore. I don't know how that will be play out, but i see it lead to the rise of the far right across Europe today, let's hope things don't escalate.

I fear there is an agenda to get rid of white male control of western countries and businesses by any means. It's already been done, you just need to wait for the generational demographic changes.

[user1499173618]

Inert - I don’t know what my window cleaner gets paid as I use a big firm. But it’s really hard work cleaning windows and much more skilled than being a delivery driver.

[cucumbergin]

Hisaishi Yes. But part of that wider context is that women, successful professional women, are often attacked for "outsourcing" their "womanly duties" to "poor women" - as if there is some moral advantage in mopping your own bathroom, booking your own meetings/flights etc. Yes, there are definitely class issues around who gets to be a barista and who gets a chance to be a lawyer. And how we as a society treat people in low paid service roles. But there is also a definite strand of misogyny in the expectation that women must not merely overcome all the other structural disadvantages to get senior roles, but that they must also forgo any of the outsourcing of labour that anyone in an industrialised society does, and bake their own fucking bread!

[IWriteCode]

cucumbergin, lisasimpsonssaxophone, EBearHug, thanks for the empathy. I have been made to feel so bad by so many people who insisted that the problem was me: that I'm too loud, that I am too reactive, that I'm too conflictive...funny that the white men never get that kind of feedback or if they do, it doesn't matter.

[InertPotato]

One of my daughters was saying she likes working with men who have full time working wives most as they tend to be a lot less sexist than men with a non working wife at home.

Really, how could they not be? All the diversity training in the world is not going to accomplish what a single vomit alert phone call from the school will in one fell swoop.

[Xenia]

I am optimistic. Things are graduatlly changing. I have worked full time for 35 years despite babies and have done pretty well although I had to set up my own firm to do it in the end. I cannot say that was necessarily due to gender, but I would like to see instead of about 20/80 female/male ratios of the highest earners we were at 50/50.

I do realise there are two separate issues - that some people white black male female earn a lot and are in high paid careers and a lot of people aren't and that is often more of a class and education issue in the UK than gender. However that does not mean we should say forget about the high paid and only try to get income equality across classes. Just because a lot of men have low paid jobs does not mean we should not be cross that women hold about 20% only of positions of power and high pay in the UK.

One of my daughters was saying she likes working with men who have full time working wives most as they tend to be a lot less sexist than men with a non working wife at home.

[InertPotato]

Paying someone else to do stuff so you don't have to is not some big crime against women.

It's not a crime against women, neither is it a solution to the problem as described here if the outsourcing is going to generally low-paid women. Which it is.

Help” isn’t always women. My window cleaner, my odd job man, the online supermarket delivery driver, the Amazon delivery driver, the firewood delivery person... they are all men!

Sure, but they're paid better than a nursery worker, for example (delivery drivers, I'm not sure).

[user1499173618]

“Help” isn’t always women. My window cleaner, my odd job man, the online supermarket delivery driver, the Amazon delivery driver, the firewood delivery person... they are all men!