To think badly behaved kids do exist....

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

I recently light heartedly joined a discussion about poor behaviour among neighbourhood kids - others had already commented about poor behaviour/manners on halloween and i also noted kids not saying please/thank you & other things I won't put detail on here about. I immediately got berated for "being quick to judge" - apparently I should have assumed those children might have autism or learning difficulties, and should be more tolerant. AIBU? I appreciate some kids do need exceptions made but surely this must be the minority, and it is statistically more likely that a child will be neurotypical than not? Within reason if you see poor behaviour its more likely to be that a condition of some sort? Or are there no kids who just a bit naughty or play up occasionally any more? Mine must be the only cheeky DS left

[Maelstrop]

You’re right, OP, some kids are just extremely poorly behaved. I’ve seen this in every walk of life, rich, poor, parents in prison, ‘normal’ parents, from every class. Some children have SEND, but an awful lot with poor behaviour don’t. I’m sick of parents trying to blame anyone but the child or their own parenting which may have led to entitled very poor behaviour. I do wish some parents with very poorly behaved children would just admit that yes, little Jonny is actually a little shit. Maybe he’ll grow up to be an amazing person, but at 14 and a total pain in the arse, it would be nice if the parent would cotton on.

[MaisyPops]

Why do so many parents assume poor behaviour is down to poor parenting? Is it because you want to preen yourself on your amazingly superior parenting skills because your children are so perfect (I suspect they're really not)?
It's not about being perfect. It's the difference between normal kids being kids misbehaviour, pushing boundaries and children who routinely behave poorly, hurt others, are rude etc.

From a school perspective more often than not the teenagers we have the most hassle from who think they are untouchable are the ones who have parents who will routinely kick off if we dare to speak to their child about their terrible behaviour (including blaming staff for their child's refusal to work, blame staff for the child being verbally abusive, physical assaults & even flat out lying to our faces in front of their child). Thr best is 'oh we are afraid its a personality clash' which trabslates as 'our child doesnt behave if the adult has any boundaries they dont like'. In those circumstances it's entirely obvious where the child has picked up the entitled attitude and lack of boundaries from.

Most children if you challenge poor behaviour apologise, accept they were wrong and you move on. Most parents if you spoke to them about normal day to day poor choices/off acts of poor behaviour don't act like that and as such their children are lovely.

[OhhEnnEmm]

I just want to point out, just in case there's any confusion, I was just saying that it's not unreasonable to call a child naughty.

Like I say the conditions AREN'T made up, but there are parents who self diagnose their kids just so they can excuse their lack of any effort in their parenting, that's what I mean with the whole made up part.

It takes a lot for me to judge someone on their parenting since it's not my business and they'll know their child best. But when you see parenting so lazy that it's dangerous, and you end up being the one to take that danger away constantly, it feels harder to ignore.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

YANBU, OP; it's right to bear it in mind, but the go-to suggestion on here that every badly behaved child may have additional needs is tiresome. Even when told they definitely haven't, the reply comes winging back that "it's probably just undiagnosed" or that the child is "masking"

And yes, I've raised such a child myself ... I always took the view that he had enough to cope with, without being a brat as well

[RomanyRoots]

Puzzled

You are completely right, my ds2 who wasn't diagnosed until 17 was so challenging. I know parents used to judge me and I tried so hard to discipline properly and raise him to have good manners and to be kind, just like the others.
In some respects it was a lot harder as he just didn't get things.
I found that far more allowances were made by people when dd was diagnosed and it was much harder to keep good discipline and manners as people would say "Oh, it doesn't matter", when it clearly does.

Now she is highly commended at school for excellent social skills and manners. We were recently told she is future head Girl potential, just what they look for in upper 6th, only y10 atm, but I was so proud.
I could have listened to those saying it doesn't matter, but I too didn't want to saddle her with uncontrolled bad behaviour and lack of manners.

[Littlepleasures]

Some of the worst manners I have seen have been those of people who tell others off in public about their lack of manners. I have always considered the point of good manners to be to make others feel valued and respected and I despair when I see a ‘polite’ person humiliate someone they deem to be lacking manners, totally oblivious to the irony.
Many years ago, I witnessed my 8 year old humiliated like this by someone who had held the door for her. That ‘polite’ person could not have known my daughter had horrendous anxiety out in public and coped with it by blocking everything out.

A genuinely polite person however does not feel the need to humiliate those less polite than themselves.

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

This thread has got really focussed on manners. I maybe didn't word my AIBU too well, the aspect i was most confused aboit was the expectation I should assume any poorly behaved child was likely to have additional needs and make allowances accordingly. To me there's something quite demeaning to those kids who do have additional needs to just assume any badly behaved child might share their very real challenges.

[shearwater]

A genuinely polite person however does not feel the need to humiliate those less polite than themselves

APPLAUSE

[staydazzling]

Do you know what most kids are NT and most just get over excited and giddy and forget, yes they need to be reminded, but 'bad kids' is harsh were so awful in this country cant wait to write off children as bad.

[Spikeyball]

Well obviously every poorly behaved child you meet isn't going to have additional needs.
What you don't want to be is to be the sort of person who stands in a queue talking loudly about the "disgusting behaviour" of a child who has learning difficulties and a parent who is trying there best to keep a lid on the situation. Not me/my child by the way.
That really is bad manners.

[LouMumsnet]

Evening everyone and thanks for the reports. You'll probably have noticed that we've removed some posts which broke talk guidelines. We don't allow disablist posts of any kind on Mumsnet and will delete any that are reported to us.

It seems like a good moment to point folk in the direction of our This Is My Child Campaign.

Please do have a read.

[TroysMammy]

I have to frequently pull my 8 year old niece up to say please and thank you not just to other people but to me. I assume she's been brought up to say it (but my DSis can be a bit soft) and it annoys me that she has to be prompted. She's not a shrinking violet either.

[OliviaStabler]

A genuinely polite person however does not feel the need to humiliate those less polite than themselves.

Rubbish. If people don't pull others up on their bad manners then they will be left to carry on behaving badly.

[lydiaatthebarre]

YANBU. Thankfully society is now more aware of the needs of children with special needs but it gets very annoying on AIBU when some posters try to make out it is the most likely scenario when a child is behaving badly especially when its done in a pious virtue signalling way.

[FredFlinstoneMadeOfBones]

I think it's fair to judge the behaviour of a group of children in general. If you have 20 kids knocking and none or less than half say "thank you" it's totally fair to comment on that. It's probably unreasonable to make a snap judgement about an individual child though as you just don't know what their situation is.

[shearwater]

Rubbish. If people don't pull others up on their bad manners then they will be left to carry on behaving badly

Depends on the circumstances and how it is done, but the example of a stranger thoroughly humiliating an 8 year old for forgetting to say thank you when someone opened a door for them was given, which is belittling someone younger than you for your own enjoyment and over the top, not good manners in itself.

And if you get aerated about that, what on earth will you do when someone is actually rude and not just forgetful? Implode?

HUMILIATE is the key word here. It would have to be something quite bad to actually need to humiliate someone.

[swingofthings]

Kids are kids, they are always in the process of learning and some learning seems to go on over and over again. Kids with bad manners or attitude don't upset me, what odes puzzle me though are parents who witness their kids' poor behaviour, in public, and do nothing about it at all seeming to consider the bad behaviour acceptable or parents who put more energy in apologising for their kids behaviour rather than picking them up on it.

The bahaviour which I believe not to be socially acceptable is kids screaming and shouting yet almost everytime I hear such a child, whatever their age, there is a mum or less often a dad, who let their kids do so without any reprimand or gentle word to remind them to keep it down.

So is shouting and screaming, which is just really painful for those who are not subjr Ted to it all day long, now considered acceptable and those who are disturbed by it misfits of our new society?

[Heatherjayne1972]

The parents who let their kids scream and shout are probably desensitised to it
They don’t notice it And/or don’t think it’s a problem

[Thisnamechanger]

I was a right little shit

Same

[BumsexAtTheBingo]

Definitely more badly behaved kids than kids with Sen but if I don’t know I’d sooner let the bad behaviour of a badly behaved kid go than wade in and make a child with sen’s day more difficult.
If a kid doesn’t say thank you for their bag of Haribo is it the end of the world to let it go? I’m more concerned with my kids manners than other people’s - that’s their parents job.

[SnuggyBuggy]

What Littlepleasures said. I know it sounds daft but I have developed a real anxiety around doors after some bitch humiliated me as a teenager for not holding a door when I was apparently supposed to. I'm still not 100% certain what the etiquette is with doors.

[swingofthings]

Heatherjayne, if they disenstised with the screaming and shouting, it's because they've let it happen over and over until indeed they don't notice any more so why do they ignore it in the first place.

What if they kids start cursing, do they ignore it too until they are disenstised to it and their kids curse freely in public places?

Surely this is poor parenting?

[shearwater]

It depends on the age of the child and where you are. Screaming and shouting in excitement at the park is ok up to a point, obviously not in the library, but children do not pop out of the womb knowing when to be quiet, or even caring about being quiet and it's all a process.

Someone said to me that my daughter's squeal in the park was "Piercing, ooh, I couldn't cope with that!" whereas I had barely registered that she had made a noise and was content that she was playing happily.

[swingofthings]

A play park I totally agree. I'm talking about a cafe, a leisure centre showers, public transport, the beach where other people are chilling out.

As said, of course kids are going to scream and shout when therexare little but unless they are been reminded that it's not a nice thing to, they are not going to learn that it isn't sociable.

I'm talking about telling them off for it, just a gentle 'honey, there's no need for screaming, it's not pleasant for other people, please can you stop'.

I think it is sad that parents get to the point they don't register the level of noise their kids are making. People are more and more stressed, a the increasing noise levels in our life isn't helping.