Job hunting (NHS) with a bad reference

[PoesyCherish]

I've been working for my current company for a few months. For many reasons it's not working out, the main reason being because my boss won't make any adjustments (reasonable or otherwise) to my working environment to take into account my disability (musculoskeletal condition) and as a result I've had to take several weeks off as sick leave.

I really want to work for the NHS in a different area to what I'm in now. I have some experience and know it's something I can do physically despite my health condition. In theory I can go back to university and retrain via the undergraduate route. There's also the option (hypothetically at least) of getting a job in the NHS and carrying out on the job training. But how on earth do I do that given my current situation?

Every NHS application I've made in the past has asked for 3 years of references including my current / most recent employer.

AIBU to think I'm totally stuffed considering my current job situation? Can anyone think of a way of me getting around this?

[PoesyCherish]

@Pookiedo in all honesty I don't see the point in going back until they put adjustments in. It's not good for me and it's not good for business with me being in and out so frequently. However my boss seems to like shoving a boot up my arse and not respect or understanding that it's the workplace causing me pain.

[PookieDo]

In my own experience the Bradford is still clocking up as per standard calculation but the staff member does not trigger formal management as quickly is what I should have said! IMO don’t keep going back for short periods because that just makes it worse too. One or 2 long episodes are lower on Bradford than a few short ones

[PoesyCherish]

I don't currently work for the NHS @Pookiedo sorry I meant that I want to work for the NHS not that I currently do. I currently work in the private sector and their disability management / HR totally sucks is non-existent

[PookieDo]

Go onto your intranet and look at your Trust absence policy if you can find one, it should state in there about reasonable adjustment and in mine, I know that for some disabilities they have a different trigger point (for sickess management stages) than the standard 125. If you have a disability you are protected and very much should speak to HR about this soon.

Trac May send you out a separate occupational health form for you to complete and return. On NHS jobs there is a section that asks how many days over 2 years sick and if you have a disability but perhaps not the same on Trac

[PoesyCherish]

@Pookiedo the applications via Trac ask if you have a disability but I didn't think there was anywhere there to elaborate re actual absence records or even what the disability was other than a drop down menu?

Are you saying if I spoke to HR my Bradford score would then be lowered as the absences would be linked as it's related to a disability?

I'm attempting to tackle my current situation but other than holding countless meetings, having recommendation from occupational health and giving them the fit notes in which my GP was explicit they need to put adjustments in place and the lack of adjustments are a direct cause of me being too ill to work, I don't know what else I'm supposed to do

[PookieDo]

And don’t leave out the job
I am wary of random gaps that don’t account!

[PookieDo]

The application will ask you about your own sickness and if you have any disabilities. It is true if you have a disability effectively your sickness still is sickness but it is managed differently under the absence policy - they do not count it in the same way as Bradford scoring accumulates for non disabilities if they are all related to the disability. BUT. You would need to see occupational health about this and speak with HR/manager about the disability status, usually confirmed by consultant/GP etc and the occupational health doctor will make a report of recommendations too. So you would be covered. Without this process you are stuck with a normal absence record and rising Bradford which could look bad on a reference

They do not usually get references until an offer is made (most trusts use Trac jobs and this is how this process works), all the way through this point it is a conditional offer. If you need a referral to occ health this can be made by the appointing manager too. You will complete an Occ health questionnaire

If you pass all this you will get an unconditional offer

I would just be very honest and upfront but also tackle your current situation to help yourself with this - there is no reason you don’t have all this in place already and your boss is not supporting you effectively. Talk to your HR department

[PoesyCherish]

Positive @Happygolucky009

My letter said something along the lines of "you must allow your employee to take the equipment with them if they take up employment elsewhere". I can't remember the exact wording and am led in bed so cba finding the letter but it definitely said they must allow me to take it with me if I get another job.

I don't know if it's because I applied before 6 weeks but work would also be able to claim back 100% of the costs.

[Happygolucky009]

I have recently purchased equipment via access to work. With significant money which can not be reclaimed from dwp and therefore funded by your employer, are you sure you could take it with you upon leaving?

[PoesyCherish]

@gamerwidow but it's not just about the essential criteria is it. The last job I applied for I met all the essential criteria, had an interview but didn't get the job as another person had a fair bit more experience than me. So yes I see what you're saying about it being on my own merit re the essential criteria but it feels like an unfair advantage if they wouldn't have ordinarily given me an interview iyswim.

[gamerwidow]

when it comes to choosing between very similar candidates it’s necessarily arbitrary when deciding who to take forward so you may as well give yourself an edge.

[gamerwidow]

Because if 20 people have all met the essential criteria and they’re only interviewing 10 it’ll mean you make the cut.
It’s not an exact science but you won’t be taking a spot from someone more qualified.

[PoesyCherish]

And yes don’t decline the automatic interview. If you’ve met the essential criteria you are there on your merit anyway!

What would be the point of ticking yes then?

[gamerwidow]

And yes don’t decline the automatic interview. If you’ve met the essential criteria you are there on your merit anyway!

[gamerwidow]

I’m a manager in the NHS and often recruit staff (I also have RA so sympathise with your predicament).
Don’t leave out your most recent employment a gap will look worse especially if you can’t properly explain it.
We don’t ask for references until you are offered the job so they won’t prevent you from being fairly treated at interview.
Do explain at interview about your sickness in the current role and about how you will prevent it reoccurring in this role.
In the last 5 years I’ve employed someone with Lupus who had to take a lot of time off in her previous role before her condition was well managed and I’ve employed someone who was sacked for misconduct but who was open about it at interview and I felt had learnt lessons from her experience and wouldn’t do it again. Both are excellent employees.
If you are a good fit for the role and can explain how you will overcome the problems you faced in the past so it’s not a problem in future most employers imo will give you a chance.

[t3rr3gl35]

I moved to the NHS from a job where i had an extended period of sickness leave. I disclosed at interview that I was currently on sick leave and explained the reasons. I was referred to occ health as part of my conditional offer and they were satisfied that the reasons for my sickness absence were genuine. I think that being totally upfront at interview only went in my favour.

[Alwaysatyke]

Don't decline the automatic interview - it would never "win" you an interview you didn't deserve. You'll still only get through if you meet all essential criteria

[PoesyCherish]

Would it look better to apply leaving out this job? Then most recent employer is your last employer? You'd need to explain a break in employment then, though.

Yes potentially but then I don't know how to explain such a long break in employment. When would your internal sickness procedures be triggered.

@IheartNiles I thought the offering interview when disabled was only if the candidate ticked yes they'd want to do that. I always say I have a disability but no I don't want an automatic interview if I meet all essential criteria (I want to be interviewed on my own merit not because somebody has to)

[caroloro]

I work.for the nhs and am quite heavily involved in recruiting to our clinical team. There is some misinformation on this thread!

It is mot usual.practice to request references before interview...that would be a massive waste of time and resource!

In my trust, it would be Occupational Health who made the call Re fit to work.or not. On the whole, the potential emoloyee's sickness record would need to be one that would not have triggered our internal sickness management protocols.

In my trust at least, we do mot mostly ignore two ticks. If the person met ALL essential criteria, they would-be interviewed.

It sound like your current employer is being less than supportive. Would it look better to apply leaving out this job? Then most recent employer is your last employer? You'd need to explain a break in employment then, though..

[LucheroTena]

I am going to differ.

I work in the NHS, there is positive discrimination for people who disclose a disability at application. They are flagged. If we don’t shortlist them for interview we have to be very clear as to why.

The appointing manager has no access to people’s sick records or references until after the interviews and conditional offers have gone out. If the offer holder discloses a significant sickness record or disability they are referred to occ health for assessment prior to a final offer being made. Any employer who revokes an offer based on disability related sickness is on shaky ground legally. We have always been advised to employ if reasonable adaptations can be made. NHS references now are very factual only, they ask for dates of employment, whether the person was subjected to a disciplinary and sickness record.

[PoesyCherish]

My absence rate was much lower in previous jobs where adjustments were put in place. As in, I had the occasional day off but nothing extended and no higher than any other person within the company.

The adjustments are expensive if they put them all in place but thusfar they haven't put in any and they're a huge company.

If (huge if here) I were able to convince them to purchase equipment, and since it's through access to work I'd be able to take the equipment with me to a new employer, would that help alleviate their concerns over my sickness record?

At what point do I mention this; on my application or at interview?

[SandyY2K]

Also absence related to a disability cannot be counted on your sickness records

This is incorrect. It can be counted. You were sick... that's a fact. Some organisations don't disclose it.

OP .... even if they didn't disclose it...you may have to complete a pre employment medical form asking you to state how much sickness you've had.

In previous roles...when you've had adjustments in place...has your absence level still been high?

[SandyY2K]

How does that work if a request specifically asks how many sick days an employee has had

My organisation does not disclose disability related absence.

We deduct those days from the total days off sick.

Managing sickness is a pain ... I agree but we've had to pay out for not offering a job because of high sickness which was disability related.

Are the adjustments you need expensive?

Did you declare your disability early on when offered the job?

What reason has been given for not making (reasonable) adjustments?

Is there a HR department? Or occupational health?

You do know that your employer is at fault here and you could put in a disability discrimination claim.

[stellabird]

I'm in management and I'd agree with other PP that sickness absences are a big turn-off for prospective employers. Sorry but that's the truth. It's a red flag , and if there are other applicants with clean absence records, the employer will take them over you.

[nocoolnamesleft]

My experience is that the NHS is fucking awful at making reasonable adjustments, and struggles to get its head round the concept that some staff may not be 100% well. Which is ironic.