To ask what concerns you have over NHS RE voting

[workingfromhomerules]

Just that. I would appreciate views on what problems voting conservative would mean to the NHS and why Labour are deemed the safer often RE the NHS.

I am asking for a family member who works for the NHS.

[Headofthehive55]

I work in the nhs and agree with those upthread who say it's nit always about money.
My then disabled daughter when labour was in power suffered due to the poor care. I wasn't even given the appropriate equipment to feed her. It was only when the "service" was contracted to a private company we actually had a service.

[BillSykesDog]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to manifestos because they're just propaganda really.

If something is in a manifesto they have a mandate. And they do generally implement manifesto policies. Some info here:

consoc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/COSJ2086_Mandates_and_Coalitions_06.14_WEB-1.pdf

[Believeitornot]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to manifestos because they're just propaganda really.

The honest reality is that the Tories wish to have a smaller state. They will pretend that they've pumped money into the NHS but the reality is that it has not kept apace with demand. They've also held down the pay of nurses and made it even harder to become a nurse, by introducing loans for trainees.

They will say that they want a strong and stable economy, but history shows that actually the Tories aren't particularly good at managing the economy. Unless anyone can point me to hard evidence to show differently without blaming labour or pointing to the labour record.

[workingfromhomerules]

I agree it needs looking at. What a job to have to sort the NHS out!

BTW my brother voted conservative in the end.

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

We need to have an honest and candid discussion as a society about what we can and are willing to pay for. It's a very difficult question, with difficult answers.
We need to stop simultaneously slagging off the NHS (too many managers when they have less than any other industry) and at the same time treating as if it is blasphemy to change anything.
It is complicated and we need to have some difficult discussions.
For instance I was told the other day about a 90 year old having a hip replacement, at first I thought waste of money and then I thought but they might be a sprightly 90 year old with decades of life expectancy.....difficult complex discussions....

[nickelbeingnormal]

I agree with Captain too
It needs a long-term, cross-party strategy.

Something which I know labour would be willing to put into places - tories are too far gone with the rip apart and destroy policy to change it now

[grins]

My view is that the NHS is doomed in its current structure. It's not just a money problem, more a demand / structure problem. Gobbolino and Cinderella are spot on.

The truth is that no party is being candid about the issues as there are no votes in that. Labour bangs on about being the guardians of the NHS because a) voters care about it and b) they have a lead in opinion there.

Fundamentally, the NHS needs to evolve significantly from the service that was set up 70 years ago and this will require huge structural change. Like anything that requires big change, there are lots of voices against this change. But medical practice has changed enormously in that time and the NHS structures need to evolve too.

[BillSykesDog]

Er, Baggy. I refer you to Mid Staffs if you think that's a Tory problem.

[workingfromhomerules]

Livia I think he is just wanting some reassurance.

[BillSykesDog]

I wish I could vote for you Captain.

[BillSykesDog]

Totally agree with you Captain. It would be great to see some real cross party working on the future of the NHS for the good of patients rather than being used as a political football.

[DJBaggySmalls]

Two people die of hunger or thirst every day in an NHS hospital. Its in the worst state its ever been. If you want the NHS, vote Labour. If you want the US style system vote for anyone else.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Gobbolino Yup - I bet you are spot on

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

I tend to find that - As a matter if fact - people who vote for a left leaning party are quite happy to declare that in real life. People who vote for a right wing party less so, ad they are likely to be called kitten murderer etc and it's just not worth the aggro. I say that as someone who has traditionally voted Labour/Lib Dem.

I suspect that a why your brother has come across more doctors declaring he should vote for Labour.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

Why doesn't he look at them? And why has he not bothered until now?

His colleagues have no right to tell him to vote any way at all.

Presumably he's intelligent and well educated - can he not inform himself? I have never asked anyone who to vote for

[workingfromhomerules]

Sorry - was on a call. You have so far all made some really interesting points and I admit I was expecting a pro labour response.
My brother wants to vote conservative, but at work he has been overwhelmed with Doctors telling him the NHS is doomed under a conservative government and understandably it has made him question himself a little.
I have had a look over the manifestos now.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

I have seen a few Twitter posts from nhs workers who have said that just because they work for the NHS doesn't mean they would vote labour as they don't feel they would do the best job.

[RMC123]

This is a really interesting thread. I have always voted Labour but won't be this time as I don't have faith in Corbyn and the team around him. The posts that have been filling up my Facebook feed have basically accused me of turning my back on the NHS if I don't vote Labour. So pleased to see others agreeing with my feeling that Labour don't necessarily have a workable solution either .
I am voting Lib Dem - can't bring myself to vote Conservative and our local MP , Tim Farron had done a good job for the local area.

[LiviaDrusillaAugusta]

If he's genuinely not made up his mind but relying on you to do through it - it's a little late isn't it? Did he not think about this before election day? How odd for someone who is directly going to be affected.

[CinderellaRockefeller]

Problem with the NHS is that everyone things they're an expert, because they USE it. It's the only industry I see that so prevalently.

I buy things from Amazon, but I would never declare myself an expert on supply chain logistics and pontificate aggressively on how Amazon should or shouldn't run their business to be more profitable and better for customers, dismissing the thoughts of the experienced people who actually work in the field in favour of my experince of buying books.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

My DH works for the NHS in a clinical role. He despair about the gross inefficiencies he sees and does not want more money committed to the NHS until there us a thorough review of the the geveral structure and processes. Many other clinicians he works with feel the same.

They're also a bit tired of being lectured and patronised about the NHS by people with no medical training who have never worked within the NHS and - by default based on their voting preferences - called cunts by the very people rocking up looking for emergency care on a Saturday night

[lougle]

I'm in the NHS and I'm a torn voter. I want the promised manifesto of Labour (and traditionally I'm a labour court voter), I have seen the damage of the cuts to the vulnerable (and have a disabled daughter) and yet, I can't see it. I can't see the Labour promises happening. I don't trust Jeremy Corbyn. I know that the taxes never raise as much as they say they will. Every new project costs more than you think it will. The gap just widens. I really worry about his stance on terrorism.

I'm not that sold on Theresa May either, and the Conservative manifesto is quite short and lacking in detail. Yet, it does reassuringly seem that they understand the state of the economy. They don't promise to fix the unfixable.

So hard.

[CinderellaRockefeller]

I work for the NHS. No party has a good solution as it is in an absolutely shambolic state.

However Labour concern me the most because they are happy to play on the populist, knee jerk response of no change to the sacred cow which the NHS has become. Someone needs to stand up for the NHS and say it can't go on the way it is EVEN if you poured all the money in the world into it. It needs change and the public need to accept that there will be change, either in scope, in quality or in the way services are delivered (integration and consolidation with closure of smaller outlying sites). I see Labour as the party least likely to champion that. The attack on the Naylor report is a good example of this.

So basically I wouldn't base my vote on the NHS because no one is offering a proper solution. Base it on other stuff.

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

I agree with captain.
Also some senior Tories plus others have shares in private healthcare companies. They may be able to keep the two things separate but many people would have difficulty.

[Captainj1]

My personal view is that the NHS shouldn't be at the mercy of any one party. What it needs is a 30 year strategy, with associated reform/restructuring and a full funding allocation put aside (with contingency) to deliver it. The current system of each government deciding what to do with the NHS every 4/5 years, frequent restructuring (including undoing what the last government did), and lack of long term investment in things like systems (cue cyberattack) just doesn't work. The sorts of money that the parties are talking about putting in to the NHS (£8-20bn) are a complete drop in the ocean considering ie much it costs to run the NHS for just one day. The NHS would not cope if it was unable to be supported by the private healthcare system. My GP is as likely to refer me to a private facility (under NHS) as a public one, depending on what I need. It's about the two working together in the right way. It isn't as black and white as either party are making out.