Honestly, to all intensive purposes you will thank me for this one day

[MutePoint]

I'm in no position to join the grammar police but some MNetters might be grateful to learn that

all intensive purposes should actually be: all intents and purposes

per say should be: per se

mute point should be: moot point

Both of those articles seem to suggest that while widespread, haitch is a hypercorrection and so a deviation from the correct form.

Anyway, my disagreement was with the suggestion that saying haitch was a 'Northern thing'.

Glad it's not just me rinceoir! We've a lovely kids book that rhymes 'lions' with 'irons' (not here it doesn't) and caterpillar and gorilla ain't a match either!

""Haitch" is accepted in Ireland and is used by the vast majority of Irish people."

Maybe I don't know the right kind of Irish people....

All haitches in Ireland. Maybe different in Northern Ireland?

Well tbh it's not a topic that comes up in conversation in Ireland, but people simply say "haitch" when spelling words. It's only in England that it seems to distress people! I've had people at work comment on it. Which is rude I think.

Genuine question, what do kids learn at school in UK when learning phonics? Here in Ireland it's C makes a cuh sound, Haitch makes a 'huh' sound etc...

Re. teachers telling students local dialect is wrong - I think they could say, that's a local variant, but the more widely accepted version is this.
If the child is later going to study out of the area or apply for jobs, it would probably be an advantage not to speak with too much dialect.
'Chimbley' instead of chimney is a common one to find around here and I've heard that defended as dialect. It may be, but if you travel 50 miles in another direction, people would find it very amusing as well as just plain wrong.

Havent read the full thread but the one thing that really annoyed me was years back, when ex-p would constantly write has instead of as.

"If the child is later going to study out of the area or apply for jobs, it would probably be an advantage not to speak with too much dialect. "

Well if by too much dialect you meant something that was almost another language like the dialects of Italian, I'd agree with you, but most British people now will just use some dialect words here and there. I've never head chimbley, but would be able to understand it in context.

If you compare with accent, a few decades ago you couldn't work in TV unless you spoke in RP, but regional accents are favoured now.

I think the child should just be told about different registers e.g. we speak differently when giving a presentation from how we speak with our friends, written language is different again.

Phonics, absolutely no cuh or huh here. It's just the initial sound. Very frowned upon to teach phonics with an uh sound after the initial sound.

lol chimbley. we have hospical and Scocland here.....cringe

An hotel isn't bonkers if you say hotel the French way as people used to. An 'otel.

"Very frowned upon to teach phonics with an uh sound after the initial sound."

Can you explain? If there's no uh sound after it you wouldn't hear anything. The consonant sound by itself doesn't make any noise unless there's a vowel-type sound after it.

YouTube phonics. It's quite a simple concept that a T sound isn't said "tuh" but just "t".

"It's quite a simple concept that a T sound isn't said "tuh" but just "t".

If you said 't' with no vowel after it, nobody would hear the t!

Um.. Not at all. It needs no sound after it. If Reception can understand this I'm sure you can

Love this thread, as much as them mumnetters! This is something that infuriates me, them instead of those.

I've said this before on here. It's 'aitch' in the dictionary.

I find the poor spelling on here and other media utterly depressing. Why don't people care?

Oh and the past participle of 'text' is 'texted'. Had to stop listening to a podcast because of this egregious error.