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About 'International Men's Day'
166

ZoeTurtle · 19/11/2015 08:45

I've just been informed by a colleague that it's International Men's Day. According to their website:

It is an occasion for men to celebrate their achievements and contributions, in particular their contributions to community, family, marriage, and child care while highlighting the discrimination against them.

AIBU to think this is MRA bollocks or is there a big problem of "discrimination against men" that we should be highlighting?

OP's posts:
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SolidGoldBrass · 20/11/2015 16:17

An INternational Day for suicide prevention would be a good idea. As would an international event reminding men to take care of their health. I have recently been to a few events where there were stands raising awareness of testicular cancer and encouraging men to examine their bollocks for potential problems.
All that's all good.

But men-as-a-class oppress women-as-a-class. There are no societies or cultures in this world in which men have fewer rights than women, are legally owned by women, are routinely bought and sold by women, killed by women with comparative impunity. There are countries, cultures and societies where women are forbidden to vote, drive, own property, go out unaccompanied etc.

So feminism, the liberation of women,remains an important movement. By all means set up or support campaigns to assist specific male issues, men's mental or physical health problems, etc. Or set up campaigns to help specific categories of people such as wheelchair users, refugees, ex-forces, cancer sufferers. Or support animal charities if that's where your priorities lie.

Many individual feminists are involved in other kinds of activism or charity work, just as many people who campaign and fundraise for animal welfare, prison education, curing cancer, etc, support feminist causes.

But feminism is about women. It doesn't need to be diluted or distracted by all the other valid causes that any and all individuals can involve themselves with. Feminism is for women.

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MephistophelesApprentice · 20/11/2015 10:24

SmillasSenseOfSnow

Those are things men and women should be working to balance every day of the year.

But unless you believe male suicide rates are somehow related to things that women are doing, it would be fair to see IMD be a day where I don't have to examine my identity in relation to women.

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Flashbangandgone · 20/11/2015 07:28

Are they discussing being more proactive in the home? taking on more day to day childcare responsibilities? are they debating why men abuse women and ways of dealing with such men through policy change? Etc etc

This one-dimensional narrative of 'women are victims with men their oppressors' is unhelpful and, albeit we don't yet have full gender equality, is wrong.

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SmillasSenseOfSnow · 20/11/2015 02:18

Are they discussing being more proactive in the home? taking on more day to day childcare responsibilities? are they debating why men abuse women and ways of dealing with such men through policy change? are they pulling each other up on extra marital affairs, pledging to be faithful to their wives and building happy homes for their children? are they discussing why men abandon their children so often and what they should do about it ….if they are doing all this then i'm all for International men's day.

International mens day, which men can spend thinking about women. Hmm.

While I don't agree that women should dictate what men focus on on IMD, bloody hell, did you just write off men's treatment of women and miscellaneous other (huge) faults as women's problems?!


A discussion about men pulling their weight in the home would be men thinking about women?

A discussion about men doing their share of childcare would be men thinking about women?

A discussion about men not betraying a partner in a monogamous relationship would be men thinking about women?

A discussion about men building happy homes for their children would be men thinking about women?


What aspect of the normal tasks of daily life do you not perceive as men doing women a favour, exactly?

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IrishDad79 · 20/11/2015 01:48

Father's Day an excuse for a piss-up? Why wasn't I told about this? And all this time I've wasted it by spending the day with my kids when I could have been down the boozer.

PS Vestal is fucking clueless.

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Flashbangandgone · 20/11/2015 00:00

I didn't think there needed to be an international men's day, but reading the thinly veiled disdain for the male sex from various posts, perhaps it is something that's needed! Yet again it's a case of certain people who would proudly brand themselves as liberal being decidedly illiberal and not seeing the irony!

Yes, there's a history of inequality with regard to women, but to argue that there aren't issues that tend to disproportionately impact onto men is wrong (suicide for instance).

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CandyCaneCottage · 19/11/2015 22:15

so SGB you think professional power = happiness, its not all about power...

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SolidGoldBrass · 19/11/2015 21:43

Yeah,of course we need a day to celebrate men's achievements. The newspapers, TV, film industry etc are just full of women being praised and given awards. Every discussion panel, committee, parliamentary group, board of directors is made up entirely of women, well, perhaps with a token man if someone reminds the organisers that men are people, too. Now that political correctness has gone mad, men's achievements have disappeared from the history lessons taught in our schools. It's time to redress the balance...

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GhostofFrankGrimes · 19/11/2015 19:05

These supposedly innocuous threads about "the menz" always end up with thinly veiled jibes and cynicism from the usual quarters. Anyone would think mumsnetters did not have sons, fathers, husbands..

Obfuscation overload.

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DamnBamboo · 19/11/2015 16:58

*He's doing okay now, and I kept my thoughts to myself of course, but I absolutely think feminism could help him, because seeing young women as trophies instead of human beings was fucking his head up

Just feminism though? Or maybe people who believe in an egalitarian society, on all counts?

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CandyCaneCottage · 19/11/2015 16:58

Except they are completely different, feminism says that it's good for everyone, but I don't expect women to necessarily fight for men, but I do feel that those that won't and believe men should do it themselves should then appreciate what they are doing and not derail it.

Regarding the person with depression, there are many different facets, for example it could be that he doesn't feel entitled to a girlfriend or see girlfriends as a trophy but wants the companionship that one brings. Dependent on age it could be entitlement to things that he isn't entitled to but children generally feel entitled and some older children or even adults who develop slowly feel entitlements to things they aren't entitled to.

Also some women also get depressed because they aren't in a relationship, so then by logic there are entitled women also

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MoriartyIsMyAngel · 19/11/2015 16:58

Tell him to contact RAINN, they're very good.

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DamnBamboo · 19/11/2015 16:56

Thanks Moriarty will tell him, but he's always on the lookout as he just hasn't gotten over it and has never been able to access anything at all where he lives (Yorkshire)

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MoriartyIsMyAngel · 19/11/2015 16:54

And feminists wearing t-shirts saying they bathe in male tears get columns in national newspapers, then claim that men not talking about their emotions is down to other men.

Oh, men do that too. More than once I've had the response 'Female tears, yummy!' or 'Feminist tears, I love them!' while debating (almost anything) on the internet while being female. I think it was a 'thing' for a while. I resolved that by choosing gender neutral names for most online accounts. It's so nice to disagree with a man on a YouTube video and still have them call me 'mate' and be reasonable with me because they assume I'm male!

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MoriartyIsMyAngel · 19/11/2015 16:51

DamnBamboo - there are support groups and charities set up to help men in those areas now, if it's something he's still dealing with.

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MephistophelesApprentice · 19/11/2015 16:51

And feminists wearing t-shirts saying they bathe in male tears get columns in national newspapers, then claim that men not talking about their emotions is down to other men.

Why shouldn't we be able to advocate for ourselves, in the face of such hostility and disdain from those claiming to pursue equality?

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MoriartyIsMyAngel · 19/11/2015 16:49

also just to add that even though Feminism says that its for equality for all, it's often said why should women help campaign for men, they should do it themselves, they do it for themselves and theres a total lack of support and why even bother.

You may as well ask, why don't civil rights campaigners fight for white rights? Why don't gay rights campaigners fight for straight rights? Because they have more than enough on their plates as it is, with their own causes. I've never said that feminism is about equality for all, it's about women's rights, funnily enough, and the fact that when it comes to child rearing, getting paid the same as men for the same work, getting from point a to b without verbal or physical harassment, sexual attack, domestic violence rates, women are repeatedly dealing with the shitty end of the stick.

Men are not a voiceless minority, they are the voice of the majority (even though they're not actually the majority, last time I checked). Look at every seat of power, politically, and in business. (Little sidenote - my medication doesn't work properly, for the same reason it rarely works properly on women - the vast majority of medicine is all tested on and for men!) What do MRAs want feminists to fight for on their behalf, that they aren't doing perfectly well with themselves?

Usually, "why don't you do stuff for men" is a) a misogynistic joke, and b) a derailment tactic. Oh, and c) the usual entitlement issues. 'Nice' women are supposed to put everyone else first.

For what it's worth I think problems like male suicide and depression are also by-products of this unequal society. Example a young relative of mine is depressed, and was talking about suicide a while ago. The root cause of it turned out to be that he didn't have a girlfriend and was angry about that. He felt entitled to have a girlfriend, and not just any girl, mind you, but one who met his standards. He's doing okay now, and I kept my thoughts to myself of course, but I absolutely think feminism could help him, because seeing young women as trophies instead of human beings was fucking his head up...

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DamnBamboo · 19/11/2015 16:48

Why would men be going to a women's welfare officer? Presumably if a men's officer was appointed, it would be a man

That's the point! There isn't one and so this is what is available or not to men.

I have a friend who was raped as a child. He has been to see his GP and was told that there really wasn't much out there in the way of support groups. He was given the details of a group set up for female victims of rape and sexual assault, which is clearly also an underfunded area. He contacted them and understandably, they couldn't/wouldn't help him. He had nowhere to turn!!

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MephistophelesApprentice · 19/11/2015 16:47

I didn't seek help to escape from my abusive mother, because I thought that only men could abuse women and what I was experiencing must be normal.

I didn't seek help for my suicidal self loathing not because I felt it was inappropriate for a man to feel that way (many men do, in my experience) but because I thought that noone would care.

I only found out that this day existed because I heard of people trying to ban it.

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beefthief · 19/11/2015 16:44

Oops, didn't see there was a whole nother page of discussion. Feel free to ignore me! Blush

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MistressoftheYoniverse · 19/11/2015 16:39

I think IMD sounds great...all men were once sons...

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beefthief · 19/11/2015 16:39

Vestal - there are many ways that society is damaging to men. Just because it's men at the top of the pyramid doesn't mean that every single man is some homogeneous lump that can influence it.

Male suicide is a real problem, men kill themselves in horrible numbers. When I have felt suicidal in the past, the thought that nobody cares or would miss me is a very real one.

What you're doing in this thread is offering a series of glib, ineffectual "solutions" to a problem that you don't believe exists.

This is one day - which may well be hijacked by MRA nutjobs - where we can honestly talk about some of the problems that society impose on men. Just one day to acknowledge that they don't all have to be "macho", and that it's okay to be sad, to cry, to feel down. That you haven't failed if you're depressed. That people do care, that it can get better, and that you can be fixed.

Saying "hurr durr they just want to get drunkz lol men eh!" makes you sound incredibly callous about something you've clearly not bothered to educate yourself about.

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CandyCaneCottage · 19/11/2015 16:33

to given as gender neutral services*

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CandyCaneCottage · 19/11/2015 16:32

thats the point there isn't one Moriarty and i believe most of these type positions that are even gender neutral are filled by women, well if those women feel indignation about mens issues then that already seems a bad starting point for the man seeking help.

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MoriartyIsMyAngel · 19/11/2015 16:27

The York University Women's Officer responded to the idea of a Male welfare officer by posted an image on Facebook that read: “Carry yourself with the confidence of a mediocre white man.” The image was liked by 45 people. how can men feel safe going to women who have attitudes like this?

Why would men be going to a women's welfare officer? Presumably if a men's officer was appointed, it would be a man.

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