To think there is no point to relationships/marriage

[FlowersAndShit]

because most men leave, cheat or are abusive? I don't know anyone in a happy relationship/marriage. All marriages, especially first marriages seem to end in divorce. I just think, what's the point?

[LilacWine7]

My first marriage ended in divorce, and most of my friends who also married young ended up divorced within a few years. However, I think you learn from the first marriage. You learn what sort of person you don't want to spend your life with, what's important in a marriage, what personality traits you can/can't live with etc. It's almost like a trial run, a chance to make mistakes.
In between my first and 2nd marriage I lived alone for a couple of years, worked on my career, experienced what it's like to be independent and how to manage my own life. So I was a lot more confident by the time I was ready to marry again, I knew my own mind and I'd let go of the hurt and anger that I felt towards my first H.

I have no regrets about my 2nd marriage. I chose a man I love deeply, someone I'd known for a long time and had deep admiration and respect for as well as strong physical attraction. We are best friends as well as husband and wife. We communicate well and understand each other. We're kind and patient with each other, and both make an effort to be supportive and tolerant when the other's having difficulties. Being in this sort of relationship has transformed my life for the better.

I think too many people make decisions about marriage when they don't really know each other well. It takes years to get to know someone's character, to be able to love them unconditionally and completely accept them. I think many people rely too much on romance and the idea of a soulmate, rush into marriage or commitment, then have a shock when they discover sides to their partner they didn't know existed.

But IMO it's a shame to assume all relationships break down. I know many couples who've been happily married for decades.

[NickiFury]

I don't think ALL men are arses, probably not even the majority but I have seen and experienced more than my share of nasty men during my time, mainly in the male dominated environments I was employed in for many years. I think the good ones are hard to find and probably get snapped up pretty quick and frankly I can't be bothered to keep looking.

I do think as well that some mnetters probably have quite limited experience of these kinds of men, perhaps they got lucky early or were lucky enough to have strong boundaries from the outset. Problem is if you have a bad relationship experience early on it's entirely understandable how that could colour your perception and change you in such a way that you might keep repeating the cycle.

I have to say also that I have wide and varied friendship group and I probably know one truly happy couple and imo it's because the wife is the most gentle, kindest and unassuming person you could ever meet. She'd be impossible to get angry with I imagine. The rest include middle aged men who left long marriages, couples where one controls everything and the other just goes along with it; men and women, others who seem to actually hate each other. Without fail though, they all consider themselves to have achieved a "successful" marriage/partnership.

My friend joined a dating site for married people looking for affairs, she was absolutely inundated. Men out number women significantly on there. Two thirds men to one third women and the men are very active. All married all looking for affairs, literally 1000's of them.

I think maybe I have just seen too much. Have very little faith.

[knittedyogurt]

I know very few people who have divorced - in my extended friend group only one couple. Although quite a few have in dh's family & that was no great surprise since they are mostly deeply dysfunctional.

Unfortunately, recognising them is a skill that requires learning and you also need to have a lot of self-awareness about your own strengths/weaknesses.

^This is so true.

My parents have been happily married for 44 years, my in-laws for nearly 50, dh & I have just had our 17th anniversary, my brother & his wife have been married for 19 years. I don't think we are that unusual.

[MonkeyPJs]

I think that if you have a dim view of a relationship, or are in an unhappy one, people aren't likely to tell you how fabulous their relationships might be, which can then reinforce the view that all relationships are bad.

[PoundingTheStreets]

FlowersAndShit - are you ok? Has anything happened to prompt this post today or is this just a general reflection? I hope you're ok.

I am in a LTR (not married) and have been for years. It is my third relationship. It is the only one I've been in that is what I always hoped a relationship would be. He is kind, considerate, always doing thoughtful little things for me and trying to make my life easier, while also making me laugh, having fun with me, encouraging me to grow as an individual, and still turning me on in the bedroom. It is possible to have a wonderful relationship.

I was fortunate to grow up in a happy family where my parents also adored each other and whose relationship was characterised by affection and respect. I think that goes a long way towards drawing the line of acceptable and unacceptable behaviour in relationships. I ended my first two relationships because I knew what relationships could be and recognised that those weren't meeting that standard (the second was abusive).

I also think knowing yourself is a vital part of it. I spent many years single after the end of my second relationship, putting myself (and my DC) first. During that time I retrained for a better career, developed new friendships and hobbies and basically built the life I wanted. I learned a huge amount about myself in the process, which in turn helped me establish much more clearly in my own mind what I did and didn't want from a relationship - although I also came to realise that actually I'd rather be on my own than in a relationship that didn't live up to expectations. Being single can be great!

When I met DP, we took it very slow and I made it very clear early on what I would and would not accept. He said he loved the fact I was so direct and he knew where he stood. We have both learned the art of airing any disagreements/issues before they become flashpoints and always listening to each other's POVs and respecting it even if we disagree with it. We haven't yet found something we can't come to an agreement on.

To some extent, I think you have a point. Given that so many marriages fail and of the ones that go the distance, there's a good chance that a lot of them are unhappy for various reasons, I think as a society we should accept that the traditional nuclear family is not the fantastic model it's always been held up to be. It has always benefitted men far more than women, and it's no surprise to me that study after study has shown that married men but single women are the ones with the higher happiness ratings. To me that reflects inequality. I think in an equal, happy, respectful relationship, the married women's happiness would be the same as the single woman's.

The point of this is that there are good men out there - a lot of them in fact. Unfortunately, recognising them is a skill that requires learning and you also need to have a lot of self-awareness about your own strengths/weaknesses.

[The80sweregreat]

have been married for 26 years. My parents were married for nearly 60, my brothers for 42 years and the other one for 39 years. my inlaws have been married for 62 years, although if they had been in a different decade I am sure they might have divorced! ( loads of reasons they stayed together and not for the good!) A lot of people I know that married at the end of the 80s, however, are now divorced. My Dh's friends are all still together , its a mixed bag
. not going to say its been easy, my own Dh is fairly selfish and I;m sure lots of other women may well have left him by now. Im not saying im wonderful, but I did learn how to just get through the bad bits and we did work together. not always been a bed of roses of course!
I suppose its just finding the right person - it seems more of a minefield that it ever was 26 years ago, not sure why, maybe men are just more self centred than they ever were, people don't put up with things like I did. I have a friend who married and divorced very young, had numerous partners and there is / has been something wrong with all of them - its never her! I really don't know - but I am sure there is someone out there for you. I am sorry you know nobody in a happy relationship.

[Seriouslyffs]

patter has nailed it. If all the men in your life are abusers then your perceptions and standards of what's acceptable are bound to be off kilter.
Look at the freedom programme.
What do you look for in a man? If you disdain quiet men in suits who have a desk job and think that a real man will be propping up a bar making his Neanderthal mates laugh, then you're fishing in the wrong pond.
Disclaimer I know that quiet men in suits abuse too, but I also know that there's a certain bad boy image (gobby, can look after himself in a fight, plays the system, has kids already) that some women find attractive and if that's all that's on your shopping list the odds are against you.

[whois]

Oh god my friend got drunk last night and was banging on about this. Her dad is getting divorced for the FOURTH time. Her mum was no 3. Each wife was about half the age of the last one and there only a few years between no4 and herself which I think is fucking horrible.

I was trying to say it's not marriage that's the problem, it's people jumping into bed with unsuitable partners!

[HPsauciness]

I feel sorry for you OP because it's clear that your life experiences have told me men are shits.

Mine haven't, had lots of nice male friends at school, hung around in a big mixed group and are friends with them still after 30 odd years. Most of my friends are with someone in a decent relationship, I would say 50% actively happy and the rest prefer to build a family with someone than be alone, and some don't have children- those couples in my circle are actually really happy with their partners, all that alone time!

That's not to say I haven't seen some of the things you talk about, my father is unfaithful a lot, but I tend to see him as flawed rather than as a bad person (in other words a person to avoid, not to condemn), the odd thing has come up over the years.

The good news, if you can call it that, is that if you don't like the men you meet, you don't have to be with them. I didn't have many long-term relationships til my early thirties and I sometimes wonder if I hadn't met my husband, if I'd have met anyone else at all. I was pretty happy single, still had the odd fun encounter with nice men.

I think the advice of patterkiller is spot on, if you spot anything dodgy, too keen, signs of abuse within first couple of dates, I would be out of there. I would be out of there at any time point actually. So- the trouble is if you don't have that good radar you can end up staying with not nice people who then confirm your view all men are bastards.

I am not going to try to convince you to find a nice man if you don't want one, but if you don't believe they exist, that's really about you and not them.

[Mygardenistoobig]

There are some very happy couples and some not so happy.

I do think the statistics are skewed as a lot of the older generation would not divorce no matter what . I know lots of older women who never divorced and just tolerated the abuse sadly.

Some people do just settle and that is sad. Others are very happy whether they are married, co habit or live separately.

At 24 you shouldn't be under pressure to find your soul mate. Reading your posts op I think your background has definately jaded you. Don't rush into anything , you can find happiness at any point of your life.

[patterkiller]

Most have been married for 15 plus years including us.

I didn't grow up around abuse so at the first hint of it on date 1,2 or 3 I would dump and run. Maybe your tolerance is too high and you put up with more than I would on the first dates Therefore I didn't ever get into a relationship with a dickhead I only had dates with them.

Set your bar higher and look for genuinely nice men. There are loads. Honest.

[LazyLohan]

Flowers if you are going into relationships with the attitude that most men are bastards and that you would be 'settling' I'm not surprised you're finding it difficult to find a 'decent' man. Any man who was sensible, stable and had a healthy amount of self esteem would run a mile from a woman with that sort of attitude. I'd be horrified if my son got into a relationship with that sort of attitude.

Could you imagine if a woman got into a relationship with a man who thought all women were money grabbing sluts? It's that attitude reversed.

You're kind of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. As long as you continue to have this attitude no 'decent' man is going to get into a relationship with you and you're going to find you only attract the sort of people who will do this kind of thing, because they won't have any interest in a healthy balanced long term relationship so your attitude won't bother them.

[Reubs15]

You're labelling all men as the same. Very sexist. Women do the same! If it's not for you that's fine. I'm in a really happy relationship as are a lot of people I know. Have a little faith

[Morloth]

None of the men I know are abusive (well I suppose some could be but they hide it well).

I have no tolerance for abusive men. I hold all men I meet against my father and he was fucking awesome.

Been with DH for 20+ years now, he has never given me a reason to doubt him. My sons are growing into excellent young men as well.

Surround yourself with better people.

[BreakingDad77]

Theres probably not that many men who are going to be wanting to settle down that early unless they have found the one!

[fancyanotherfez]

Yes you sound like you come from an abusive background, so this may bevbwhat is clouding your view of men. Also, 24 is no age to be getting married and having children. If most of your friends have done this, then they are quite unusual. If they are all also married to cheaters and abusers, I would say you have surrounded yourself with women with an alarming lack of self esteem or prospects. Why would you want this? Do something to get yourself out of this group and worry about relationships when you start meeting more people.

[FanOfHermione]

Also I notiuce that the men you are citing are all from the same family. Rather than saying all men are like this, maybe it has more to do with tyour family dynamic?

I am sure that most families aren't like that.

[ByeByeButterfly]

You mean all women are liars, abusive or cheat too, right?

[FanOfHermione]

What do you call a 'happy relationship' though?
Do you mean one where you still in the honeymoon period 30 years later?

One where you never have an argument/difficulties/difference of opinions?

As for most men are unfaithful/paed/abusive, I think that you have had VERY bad examples around you.
When you think about your friendfs who are married/have dcs etc..., do you think they are all unhappy, married to abusive twats?

[LadyLuck81]

YABU. If you are in the right relationship it's wonderful. Not all men are shit anymore than all women are. I'm sorry if you've had a tough time.

[FlowersAndShit]

Sodder dad, stepdad, brother, grandfather, all abusive. Neighbour is a nice man in his 60's, married for years but not sure how he treats her. The thing is, many men are nice on the surface and may appear decent and gentlemen like, but behind closed doors they are very different. My father for example, is one of them.

[Dowser]

Would have been my Ruby wedding anniversary this year too.

We just managed 30 years before his cheating got out of hand( I didn't know about the ones before)

Much happier now and get married pretty soon after being with new partner for 7 years.

[Sodder]

When someone comes out with the stuff that the OP has, I wonder how the individual's parents' marriage is and the marriages of family members because I do think that whilst it is not impossible, it is more difficult to have happy relationships if our parents' marriage etc. has been unhappy for some reason. You really do have to unlearn an awful lot in order to be happy.

Does this fit OP?

Oh and no not most men cheat are abusive etc. Many are rather lovely.

[DrHarleenFrancesQuinzel]

I felt the same when I was 22. Im now 36 and have been married for 11 years. My DH isn't abusive and hasn't cheated (it would be far too much effort for him) as far as Im aware. Yes ATM things aren't fantastic between us, but we are no way near splitting up or anything.

[LeftMyRidingCropInTheMortuary]

But yes, it's better to be single than to "settle" for someone.
And you're right to think about your options and not just follow the herd.
Marriage & kids ain't compulsory, thank goodness!