SAHM/P question? (personal)

[waitaminutenow]

Going off another thread and because I am extremely nosey...lol
My question is if you are a SAHM (or SAHP)...
How long have you been at home?
How many children do you have and what ages are they?
What does your OH do and what is they're pay (v personal I know!)?
Do you receive wtc ctc and cb?

I don't want this to turn into a bashing thread for or about anyone. It's genuine curiosity of how others live that is all.

[BertieBotts]

Oh yes. Agreed there :)

[NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten]

Ah ok - but you will have paid the €7k in tax anyway, so there still wouldn't be anything left after rent for bills/food/clothing/school stationary

The childcare situation is different by state too - although Kindergarten is subsidised UK kids get a free 15 hoursfrom age 3, so what we pay for 20 hours a week isn't a as cheapwhen compared to 15 free hours... Obviously, plus the fact they'd be at free 9am-- 3pm school at 4/5 when we'restill paying for kKindergarten. And local to us school finishes at 11.20 for the first year - lunch club til 2pm would be € 100 per child per month - again that be free in the UK.

Bavaria is cheaper than the London area but more expensive than some parts of of the UK, I don't think you can say the country as a whole is cheap/expensive for either Germany or the UK.

[BertieBotts]

Not €18k, £18k.

[NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten]

morethan I agree outgoings are at least as significant as income - but that's not only about being frugal. I know people who have inherited or been gifted property who live very comfortably because one walloping great bill doesn't exist for them.

[NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten]

Bertie not all of Germany - prices vary as much as they do throughout the UK. €18 K would barely even pay the rent anywhere commutable to Munich, even in cheap areas, with space to swing a cat/ for a family of 5.

[Karoleann]

I've been SAHM for 3 years (but I'm doing a masters too)
3 children 9,7,4.
DH earns lots.
No benefits.

[BertieBotts]

Yes and no. We pay the equivalent of £500 a month but we have a really small flat, 55 square metres/600 square feet. (DS' bedroom is too small for a double bed, our kitchen is in the living room, no dining area, bathroom you could wee into the toilet from the shower while brushing your teeth looking in the mirror kind if size.) Looking at Rightmove you can find similar priced/sized properties for rent in Britain in cheaper areas, but not most areas. It's hard to compare because in Britain we don't classify rental houses/flats by square footage. I don't know how our town compares to other German towns. The going rate here is roughly €10 per square metre, so we are in fact overpaying (€700).

There is no council tax, which would be another £150 or so IIRC on a small property and some bills are often included in the rent - for example our water bill and gas central heating bill are included, but we pay our own electricity, internet, phone, etc. There is often a service charge for the building (extra to the rent, but not optional) which may include some utilities but usually just covers things like lighting and maintenance of communal hallways.

It costs a lot to move here. We are looking at about €4k next time we want to. This is because estate agents can charge a massive whack of commission, usually 3.5 months' rent. Then there is the security deposit and first month's rent in advance. And then Germans tend to take the concept of unfurnished flats to the extreme, so you have to buy a kitchen and light fittings, or sometimes you can buy them from the previous tenant. There are laws going through to limit the amount of commission it's possible to charge but very slowly. That said, renting is very secure and people often rent for much longer than they do in the UK.

Childcare seems cheaper but we don't use full time childcare. For Kindergarten, ages 3-6, 7.30am to 2pm we pay €97 (£69) a month. It's state subsidised. I don't know the costs for all day or for younger children. When he starts school this year we will pay €47 a month for school dinners and he will have care from 8am to 4pm. The school dinner is mandatory for the full day school. Some children attend 8-12 and go home for the day so have lunch there.

The Euro has dropped a LOT in the last year, so it might just be that until recently the difference wasn't that marked, but wages/cost of living haven't gone up as dramatically. £18k currently is about €25k. When we moved two years ago £18k was more like €21k. Depressing if we keep comparing, because DH has had several pay rises since we moved, but the rate compared to the pound has probably stayed about the same!

[RedDaisyRed]

That's interesting about Germany. I wonder what is so much cheaper that £18k is enough to live on there. Rent is usually people's biggest expense. Is that a lot cheaper there?

[BertieBotts]

Oh yes of course. Though I'm not at all interested in benefits bashing.

It's much easier and less stressful for DH and I to live on a combined salary of around £18k in Germany than it was in the UK. There we seemed to really be struggling and couldn't save, couldn't get credit, were living hand to mouth. Here we can save, we can access credit, we've just bought a brand new car, and we don't have money worries. We still have to budget carefully but it's no longer catastrophic if we go over or if there's an unexpected expense. And we pay more tax here. I have to admit I don't really understand why there is such a big difference.

[RedDaisyRed]

I expect it depends on your country too and what others earn in comparison to you. If you live a wild life in the Amazon jungle I am pretty sure you are not necessarily less happy than a Londoner on £100k. They probably both get exercise and whole food and enough sun. I agree that being on a low in the UK but it's probably a curve. If you don't work at all because "hard working tax payers" fund your life of utter idleness you can get out and sit in that park or the deck chair on your balcony or nearest patch of grass and think. (Thinking of conversation from daughter of 10 minutes ago asking me why she works hard to fund her one bed flat whilst surrounded by benefits claimants who do nothing and she meets hard working Eastern Europeans when she commutes to work at 6am (she was kept up by a semi riot of unemployed benefits claimants in London last night between 4 and 6am and got 3 hours sleep. Those messing around in the streets of course didn't have to get up for work as they live off her taxes many by choice around there where jobs abound in London zone 2).

[BertieBotts]

Futureme Totally spot on. And yes the line at which mental health and stress is no longer affected is around $75,000 or £40,000. It's not the same to be on 10k and 100k. It would be nice if it was but the cost of living in the UK is too high for this to be the case. So people on lower incomes suffer more MH problems, more illness, more stress which contributes to the former, and makes it harder to enjoy things like sunshine and children. Are less able to buy good quality food. It's a really nice theory and I agree money can't make you happy alone but it can make life run a lot more smoothly.

[Claireshh]

I've been a SAHM for six years. We have a six year old girl and four year old.

My Husband is a partner in a law firm. Income is good but not rolling in it as we live in SE and have a hefty mortgage.

[morethanpotatoprints]

futureme

Not necessarily, you can have a low income but have a far higher disposable income than somebody with twice or even 10 times as much.
It depends on your outgoings and your lifestyle.
We have very low income but with few outgoings there's a lot left over.
My friend with her and dh working ft earning 4x what we do are always skint.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Red

There is no way I would encourage my dc to take a career that paid lots of money. I wouldn't want them to be shallow tbh.
Life isn't about how much money you earn it's about happiness and success, which imo doesn't come from having lots of money.
It's nice to be comfortable and not have to watch every penny obviously.
However, by encouraging our children into careers just for financial gain will harm their mh in the long term.
If their chosen career does attract high earnings then good for them, if it doesn't so what if they are doing what makes them happy.

[BeautifulBatman]

Just what I was thinking nosey.

[TobikkoRoll]

Ok, thanks for the clarification - tbh I hadn't considered VAT for example. I did see that Guardian article during a quick google after I posted, but equally there are numerous links to Telegraph and Daily Fail articles about how much (income) tax is paid by HRT earners. Can't seem to easily get a clear account, probably need a degree in economics too... sorry for the derail too.

[WhattodowithMum]

Sorry nosy , do agree thread is helpful and did not mean to derail.

[Nosey77]

Ffs why can't these HELPFUL threads ever survive? Some bitter people just have to come and derail the thread. Sorry OP, it was a really good thread though.

[NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten]

As well as the fact taxes fund infrastructure used by rich and poor alike (and in some cases more by the more mobile better off) there are lots of tax breaks on private and employers pensions and on certain types of savings and mortgage interest tax relief on buy to let investment properties as well as other tax breaks (you can claim back all sorts of costs against buy to let properties) that only benefit the better off, so a lot of people who claim to "get nothing back" from taxes just because they don't claim the more obvious benefits are being very disingenuous.

[WankerDeAsalWipe]

a lot of what our taxes go on is universal too. defence, infrastructure etc. It doesn't all go on benefits to the poor.

[NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten]

www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/16/british-public-wrong-rich-poor-tax-research

Posting again for Tobikko

As Whattodo says, income tax is only one of many taxes.

Every adult pays tax (for example VAT) even if they don't earn enough to qualify to pay income tax.

The poorest 10% actually pay a higher proportion of their total income out in tax of some form than the richest.

[WankerDeAsalWipe]

If you refer to the link posted by another poster above it clarifies it a bit.

www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/16/british-public-wrong-rich-poor-tax-research

[WhattodowithMum]

Tobikko, the tax burden on the poor is high because there are more taxes than just taxes on income. VAT is 20% for everyone, the poor have to spend pretty much all they earn, while the rich can invest. A lot of investment gains are now tax free or lower than 20%. Things like TV licences, road taxes and council taxes are not based on income.

It's true that high earners on paye are paying a LOT of tax. But we can't run the country without taxes and the poor are already contributing. Higher wages and a more productive economy would be the dream scenario.

[futureme]

On a low income most of your money goes on the basics of survival, if you onky have 100 pounds a month disposable income, 25 from it will cut more harshly.

[TobikkoRoll]

Don't go yet Wanker, I'm interested to know why you think the poor (who qualifies?!) pay proportionally more tax than a HRT payer?

I'm not up to date with current tax thresholds, but presumably someone on 100k for example will pay at least 30k as tax, so 30%. What about someone on 20k, do they pay 30% of that back as tax? And in a low income you may still get various benefits which you wouldn't as a higher rate tax payer.

Please help me to understand, we do not evade and pay our taxes, but it's not often recognised that most of the taxes in this country are paid by a minority (shall go off to Google the stats...)