to ask for a pay rise - and tell me HOW!!!!!!

[mizu]

Ok so I work in education, am a teacher in FE. Worked in current place for 3 years and then left and then came back and have been here since 2006. Am curriculum leader of a small department and work 0.75 (3 and a half days a week).

Don't earn much and know I could be earning more on my pay scale and really feel like I have worked harder this year than any other. Position I am in has to be applied for every two years. No one else has applied so it will be more of an informal interview with head of school x 2. Really want to ask for a pay rise but don't know how as never have before.

Do I just bring it up at the end and explain what I have done to deserve it?

Feel uncomfortable just thinking about it.

[mizu]

Teachers in FE are indeed paid considerably less than schools. I have an old school friend who is a school teacher. She works a day less a week than me and is paid £6,000 a year more.

This has, I think, always been the case.

The problem in the college I work at is that there is a culture of 'everyone is replaceable'. I have had two members of my team resign this academic year due to stress of the job and they had both just had enough. I know that they both love teaching and being in the classroom is not the problem, it is the ever increasing other stuff that has to be dealt with. Luckily for them both, they didn't NEED to work and had other things in the pipeline.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Andro, yes, I've heard this phenomenon quoted as a fact resulting from extensive research, on many discussions about why there remains a pay gap between men and women doing the same and equivalent jobs. Especially so in the private sector where salaries are commonly confidential and there's more flexibility to 'favour' someone as you're not confined to prescriptive national pay scales like much of the public sector.

As a piece of information therefore, I see it as a neutral research finding, not an opinion.

How this situation comes about and what to do about it, on the other hand, is far more fraught with values, learnt behaviours, assumptions and individual circumstances.

[Bumpotato]

I agree that you need to take the average male attitude when it comes to achieving the pay increase you want.

I had a colleague request (and receive) a pay increase because his wife had just had a baby! He showed me the memo before he sent it. I'd done my own memo listing my recent achievements. We both got a £1,500 uplift, this was 20 years ago. If he'd been given the raise and I hadn't I would have kicked up a stink, I'd like to think.

[Andro]

That's a sexist and crap statement.

It's a blanket statement, but that doesn't necessarily result in it being sexist or crap. Whilst there are undoubtedly women who wouldn't think twice about pushing for a rise, it has certainly been my experience as a manager that men are far more likely to tackle the issue directly. I would say that over the years I've has management responsibilities, 90% of the people who have walked into my office and said (in one form of another) 'I believe I deserve a pay rise and here's why' have been male. I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true in other firms.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Well what I've learnt from this thread is that FE lecturers are paid less than school teachers. (I last looked at teaching pay scales about seven years ago and then, as I understood it, someone on the basic 'no frills' scale would have gained incremenatal payments annually to arrive after 7 years at the top, at that time around £31k outside London). Then there is 'enhanced' pay that most schools apply for to recognise their teachers' excellence.

I don't imagine that helps at all, as everyone in your sector will have the same gripe but it is interesting.

[Bumpotato]

I'm not in teaching or public sector so forgive me but why wouldn't you ask for what you want/need?

[mizu]

More great advice, thanks Bump. As for the union issue, until now I didn't think that my situation was anything out of the ordinary,

I have worked out that to be top of my pay scale (f/t equivalent to £30,000) I would need to earn about £5,000 more a year. Not that I will ask for that of course but it makes me realise how little some of us are paid for a lot of work. I know teachers are flamed on here at times but in my dept we ALL work unpaid overtime every week, there are no lunch breaks ever and.............ok so you get the point, i'm off topic slightly.

[Bumpotato]

I ask for a raise every 6 months. It doesn't always get me anywhere but I feel at least I've asked. I've had this policy for the last 15 years and as a result (that and hard work) I'm very well paid.

Make an appointment with your manager, ask and give one or more reasons why you deserve the higher rate. When you get your pay increase, don't act overly pleased or grateful even if you feel that way. You deserve the raise as you've worked hard. They're the ones that should be grateful.

[lottiegarbanzo]

Point being they are helpful for informal advice about these scenarios, as well as knowing the law and guidance that applies.

[lottiegarbanzo]

What does your union advise?

[mizu]

Thanks Christelle, much appreciated advice. I am definitely going to ask for a pay rise when in the interview next week.

[Christelle2207]

it is awkward but if you haven't had a pay rise since 2006 they would expect you ask one as would anyone else.
to have not had one at all in 7 years is taking the piss.
Try and get some evidence that others are paid more than you and get your case together re. how brilliant you are.
It is very difficult to get pay rises at the moment unfortunately. I had to fight tooth and nail to get mine but got sorted in the end. The people that shout loudest do best in my company, but we're private sector so it is different.
Remember it will cost them more money and a lot more hassle to employ someone else a bit a cheaper than you. It is in their interests to keep the staff that they have (and value) happy if they can.

[redexpat]

Actually I've read that one of the reasons that men get paid more than women is because they are more likely to ask.

[marriedinwhiteagain]

I think you and your colleagues need to contact your union.

[mizu]

marriedinwhiteagain, I wish this were true. Like I said, I had a pro rated 0.7% payrise this year like all other staff in the college. There is no automatic rise up the pay scale.

For example, in my job, if I was full time I could earn anything from £21,000 to £30,000. Some people are on the lowest and some the highest amount. Yes, of course it depends on experience and time in the company but some of us have been there a very long time - and have consistently high observation grades etc etc but do not get pay increases up the pay scale. Perhaps I just need to be a bit more pushy

[marriedinwhiteagain]

FE has an incrementally agreed pay scale both pre and post modernised pay. Increments are automatic annually unless capability or disciplinary issues prevail. Not sure what you are talking about TBH and I am an expert in the field.

[Val007]

It's difficult to ask for a pay rise, but in time you get used to it.

Once I left a job with nothing to fall back on just because I was really convinced I really deserved a pay rise and they could afford it. They let me leave. The next week I found a better paid job with childcare expenses paid on top of my salary.

Fear is your worst enemy when asking for a pay rise. Also, no point in waiting and no harm in asking.

Tomorrow, go there, look them in the eye and say: I would like to ask for a pay rise. Don't say anything else. You will see that you will get it without having to justify yourself.

Good luck ;)

[ilovesooty]

I think asking - particularly in the context of an appraisal or other discussion about career prospects - can help you look serious about your job

I agree.

[NotSpartacus]

Yes it is unusual and clearly if you work in education you are facing an uphill struggle for a pay rise in this country at the moment. But in some ways I think asking - particularly in the context of an appraisal or other discussion about career prospects - can help you look serious about your job. And while there is a lack of money for increases at the moment, hopefully that won't always be the case.

[ilovesooty]

The women in my organisation talk about pay and evidence their achievements every bit as much as the men do, in my experience. They tend to be better at getting themselves heard too.

[ilovesooty]

Sorry, notspartacus I see you managed to succeed outside the norms. Good that you did but I still mainain it's unusual now.

[NotSpartacus]

It is not sexist crap. In my experience it is absolutely true. I know number of bosses who tell me that it is always the men who work for them who ask for rises and rarely not the women. I also know a number of women who are comparatively underpaid against men in the same job, and it is not because they are incompetent.
I am not saying a man would get a pay rise every time he asked (of course he would not) but I know a lot more men who discuss pay etc at appraisals than women who do the same.

[mizu]

Thanks Ilovesooty, yes I guess if I do ask for a pay rise I will have to have it evidenced to the hilt.

[HollyBerryBush]

You know, a man wouldn't think twice before doing so

That's a sexist and crap statement. Dh hasn't had a pay rise in 3 years and he is a very high biller for the company. His colleagues however let the side down so he subsidises them. Until they start billing at his level, no one gets a pay rise.

[NotSpartacus]

Ilovesooty, I assure you I am not on another planet and of course you evidence what you are saying when you ask for a payrise. But I assume the op has evidence of why she deserves a payrise and was under the impression that her reservations spring more from the idea of asking (and being knocked back) than the fact she can't explain what she has done to deserve a pay rise.