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AIBU?

To refuse a buggy repair - Silver Cross Pop and Toys R Us

47 replies

silververycross · 08/05/2013 13:14

Our Silver Cross Pop stroller was falling apart within 3 months of purchase.

It's proving very difficult to get a refund. I spoke to Trading Standards who said that under the circumstances I would be entitled to refund but Toys R Us are trying to force me to accept a repair.

Silver Cross says that the frame is poking through the material because we use the foot-rest, which seems to me a bit of a design flaw.

I think the Pop is a poorly made piece of rubbish and I can't face going through all this palaver again the next time it breaks.

Has anyone successfully faced down Big Management? They don't seem to give a damn for statutory rights.

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Iggi101 · 10/05/2013 18:43

Having read several such threads on mumsnet, and witnessed nothing other than apathy from staff when visiting the stores, and knowing an employee, I made the simple decision to never purchase anything from toys r us again. So many other retailers to choose from now.

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silververycross · 10/05/2013 17:04

All sorted - hurrah.

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getmeoutofthismadhouse · 09/05/2013 21:55

We had the pop 4 years ago for my DD obviously it's still the same rubbish even now. It was wonky and had a bump in it before we even pushed ours out of mothercare and silly me didn't take it back. The seat went onto rip in the same place as yours and I couldn't wait to get rid of it... I definitely think Maclaren are a lot better I've had many and never had a problem. I actually got rid of our xlr for the pop and I always regretted that. Maclaren all the way for me!

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staffroomwars · 09/05/2013 21:44

My Pop put me off Silver Cross, split wheels, wonky hood...it had it all. Shame as I loved my halo but I wouldn't risk another after that pop, only bloody buggy I ever bought new too.

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CoffeeandChocolateplease · 09/05/2013 20:04

Oh cross posts, well done! I wonder what changed his mind?! Maclarens are pretty good I think, if you are wanting to go for a different model.

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CoffeeandChocolateplease · 09/05/2013 20:01

Yes, I would have thought your refund should be from TRU. I'm not in Scotland I'm afraid so can't help there.

I think going back to TRU head office is the way to go. If they agree with the lady from Silver Cross (and I can't see why not) then they will TELL him to give you a credit note.

Hope you can get it sorted tomorrow.

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silververycross · 09/05/2013 20:01

And another update - the tricky store manager has now called back just before closing time, to say that it is all sorted and I can now have my credit note.
He apologised for all the awkwardness and said it was all down to procedures and bureaucracy.
So I am now happy and relieved, and pleased with Silver Cross's customer care, and more pleased than I was with Toys R Us's customer services.
Here's hoping there will be no more instalments.
I'll probably get a new buggy then find the wheels fall off the next week, knowing my luck...

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silververycross · 09/05/2013 19:44

Well, when I told the Silver Cross lady that the guy had overruled, she phoned him. She didn't get anywhere with him, and as it was after 5 pm she couldn't get through to Toys R Us head office.

He's now telling me to seek a direct refund from Silver Cross. But I gather that as the contract of sale is with Toys R Us, it would be them who would give the refund/credit note.

I have to say that I am seeing the two extremes of customer service Silver Cross is excellent, but Toys R Us are appalling. No, actually the ladies in Toys R Us head office are nice; it's just the store manager who is difficult.

I'm in Scotland btw.

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CoffeeandChocolateplease · 09/05/2013 18:33

Have you got the contact details for the lady you spoke to at Silver Cross so he can confirm with her? Or is he refusing to do that?

Whereabouts in the country are you? I know it's a long shot but if it's my local one I can give you the store manager's name, though it might be the guy you're speaking to. They have quite a few assisstant managers as well as the overall store one.

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silververycross · 09/05/2013 17:41

Oh god. The saga is not yet over. I called Toys R Us and the man who is the evening store manager (who was difficult yesterday) appears to have over-ruled the lady who store managed in the morning.

The Silver Cross customer relations manager is lovely, as was everyone else I dealt with at Toys R Us, but there's just this one tricky guy who keeps blocking everything.

On the phone he kept interrupting me, then when I tried to keep speaking, he said "if you would just let me speak." Cheeky git. It shows how much he values customers.....

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CoffeeandChocolateplease · 09/05/2013 13:47

Great news! Glad to know Silver Cross got it sorted for you.

Crinkle, I think Sales of Goods Act says the seller must repair or replace. I found it here, section F38. I'm not too good with legal speak though so am happy to be corrected.

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silververycross · 09/05/2013 12:45

Well I did argue that.
Upthread, some people advised contacting Head Office/Chief Exec.
I must say, it wasn't until I sent an email to Toys R Us Managing Director, with Silver Cross Chief Exec and Chairman copied in, that I got anywhere.
I guess middle management have their hands tied.

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Crinkle77 · 09/05/2013 11:56

Surely under The Sale of Goods Act it is not fit for purpose and would be due a refund?

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iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii · 09/05/2013 10:49

Great Smile

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silververycross · 09/05/2013 10:20

Thank you everyone for your wise and helpful comments. iiiiiiii and coffeeandchocolate - thanks for the insights!

I have to now take my hat off to Silver Cross for good customer service. I let them know that Toys R Us weren't going to arrange a refund so they have now told Toys R Us to go ahead and give me a credit note. The customer services lady has been very nice so I am now happy!

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CoffeeandChocolateplease · 09/05/2013 09:29

Meant to say the lady was trying to open the pushchair, not close.

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CoffeeandChocolateplease · 09/05/2013 09:00

I can perhaps offer an extra insight on this situation as I used to run the Babies R Us department in our local store and was the pushchair repair person. I left 10 years ago though so this may be well out of date.

Toys R Us are entitled to try and get the pushchair repaired first. If it is unrepairable and it is a fault with the pushchair then they will offer a replacement or refund. If the fault is caused by incorrect use then the customer may be asked to pay for a repair, at the store's discretion (we very rarely did as most repairs cost pennies). They should offer you a loan buggy of similar value to use in the meantime. Often loan buggies would be returned in appalling states by customers, and we would have to give them out to the next customer like this which caused no end of problems, understandably.

It is completely correct that your complaint is with TRU, not Silver Cross. However, Silver Cross (and all other pushcahir manufacturers) also give TRU conditions for returns. One of those is that pushchairs over a certain age must be sent back for repair before a refund is considered. If they don't do this, the manufacturer basically washes their hands of it and won't reimburse the store a penny.

TRU will give a discretionary refund if the manager agrees, and thus incur a loss, and they did this several times when I was there for individual reasons, including for bereaved parents.

The manufacturers give this type of policy because of the high volume of pushchairs that are returned with faults due to misuse. During my time at TRU I saw many pushchairs returned. I can honestly say that over half of the problems were due to user error. (Please note, I am not saying this is the case here. Using the foot rest correctly is of course not a user error). All these things cause pushchairs to break:

-folding with the back rest in the incorrect position
-letting the wheels get clogged up with sand, dirt etc.
-hanging shopping bags on the handles (I am terribly guilty of this one!)
-bumping the pushchair up and down stairs
-using a buggy board (not sure if this is still the case as TRU sell them now and they didn't when I was there for the reason that they could damage the pushchairs. So newer designs may be better but I still won't use one!)

And more. There are many clues which indicate what has happened - for example a Chicco buggy folded with the seat in the wrong position will have scratches down the back. Pushchairs that have repeatedly carried heavy shopping will have uneaven wear on the wheels.

It's often simple things which are problems. One lady laid into me and told me that 'I work for the papers sweetheart, so you better do as I askand refund me'. Her problem? She was trying to close the pushchair without unlocking it first. I still remember the way she spoke to me over ten years later.

All of these common things are so easy for parents to do, I'm guilty of at least two. But the problem is the manufacturers are not responsible for errors caused by misuse. And that is the reason for the policy.

If the problem is a genuine manufacturer's error (and they do happen! I'm certainly not saying all problems are caused by misuse), then it will be repaired to a high standard - I have visited several of the repair workshops. If it is unrepairable then the manufacturer will tell TRU to go ahead with a refund.

Sorry to waffle. TRU were not a perfect company to work for and I'm very glad I left. But I can understand the reason for the policy, and at the time I worked there, Mothercare had the same. Emotions are always high when dealing with pushchairs as parents naturally want their children to be safe.

I hope you manage to get your pushchair sorted out quickly. I hope I haven't come across as saying the customer is always wrong. Just wanted to explain why this policy is in place.

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iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii · 09/05/2013 01:40

The Toys R Us guarantee nor the Silvercross guarantee seem to add anything extra to what you would be entitled to under the sale of goods act in this situation.

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iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii · 09/05/2013 01:33

Copy and paste from the WHICH guide linked to in my previous post

Your rights if an item is faulty
In the first six months from when you buy something, the onus is on the seller to prove it was of satisfactory quality when you received it
If the seller simply says the problem must be due to something you've done, it's for them to prove that
If something is not of satisfactory quality, you have the right under the Sale of Goods act, to a refund, have it replaced or repaired for free
You can ask the retailer to do either, but it can normally choose to do whichever would be cheapest
If the retailer refuses to repair the faulty goods, you may have the right to arrange for someone else to repair them and claim compensation from the retailer for the cost of doing this
If the retailer refuses to provide any remedy, such as replacing the item, you can either have your money back minus an amount for the use you've had of it, or keep the item and get a reduction on the price you paid
If the retailer fobs you off, or blames the manufacturer, think about using your guarantee or warranty

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iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii · 09/05/2013 01:30

Hereis Which (the consumer group) guidance on this.

It looks as though they can choose to repair or replace.

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edwardsmum11 · 09/05/2013 01:19

Since it is faulty under the law it is your choice of refund or repair.

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mumofweeboys · 08/05/2013 21:47

Think it came with a lifetime guarantee too

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mumofweeboys · 08/05/2013 21:43

I brought maclaren xlr and it broke after 6 months. Have to say maclaren were pretty good. They arranged for it to be collected from store we brought it from, repaired it and returned it to the store all fixed. The store even loaned us a replacement whilst being repaired (smyths toys). I still pref my maclaren over our more expensive phil and ted.

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madwomanacrosstheroad · 08/05/2013 20:55

Oh and after five kids over twenty years i have finally decided i dont like lightweight umbrella buggys. I have now got a simple emmaljunga pushchair that has a huge seat unit, a decent basket, no swivel wheels and i have piled two kids and school bags and shopping into it. It is a emmaljunga scooter or spider and truly indestructable.

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madwomanacrosstheroad · 08/05/2013 20:49

Your complaint has nothing to do with silver cross as your contract is with toys rus and not silvercross. They can offer to repair, replace or refund the item to put thi gs right, however they are not particularly clever to refuse the requested refund or credit note as this way they are both loosing a customer and getting considerable negative publicity. The maclarens are quite hardwearing usually. I had a few that did break but never on the child they were bought for. So they always saw at least one child past the heavy toddler stage and a second one halfway through.

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