Infidelity

[MsToni]

I could put this in Relationships but this isn't about me or relationships perse. Its just to understand if the general consensus is reasonable or not.

When I was at Uni, I did a research project on infidelity. I had the opportunity to canvass confidential opinions about infidelity from the male point of view.

Some men view sex as an activity much like brushing their teeth, shaving. It's a no strings attached diversion and they do not get attached. They are able to compartmentalize their lives and sex is just that - sex. They do it and its over.

While majority of the men who responded on (my blog) claim they would not cheat if they are in a stable and loving relationship, they want to have a healthy and satisfying sexual relationship with their partners because it's one of the ways they express their feelings.

The ones who are not in relationships had a more laissez faire attitude towards sexual activities.

I raised the issue of respect for women and the general responses seemed to be that it was mutual - the man and the woman are adults and know what they are getting into and if expectations are identical, there should not be any ill feelings.

I think there is a tendency to demonize men and see them as irresponsible where sex or related activities are concerned.

It will be interesting to see what the general thoughts are.

FWIW, I am very relaxed about my partners going to strip clubs, seeing escorts, having sexual exploration - as long as he is truthful, upfront and there is no emotional involvement.

[TheParanoidAndroid]

What kind of "study" did you do and are conducting here now ?

[AaaarghAgain]

#Never mind Dingo, hopefully he'll be dead quite soon and you'll have a good few years to have a decent life without him

[sunshineandbooks]

To come back to the OP, I think infidelity can have different implications for different relationships. In dingo's case, there is no sexual contact between her and her DH, so possible exposure to STD's etc is not a risk. In a long-term partnership where sex is no longer a feature, I think it can sometimes be best to continue rather than divorce, as the outcome for the woman can often be worse than simply staying. That's not to say it's right or wrong, but simply a statement of opinion based on thousands of examples.

The fact that dingo's H is not having sex with her possibly because he's having an affair, is a separate issue and one that would that I, in her situation, would have found intolerable to begin with so I probably would have left at that point. Now though, many years later, she may actually prefer it that way. It's up to dingo to decide for herself. I would echo Mal's advice to check the will though.

Infidelity in a relationship where sex is taking place between the married couple is unacceptable unless it has been agreed on as part of the relationship terms.

Infidelity with prostitutes/escorts, or visiting lap dancing clubs etc would see me running for the hills. Given that the overwhelming majority of women in these industries are exploited/trafficked/coerced/forced through desperation, any many that uses them without thought is a misogynist IMO. He is wilfully contributing to an industry that wrecks women for profit and contributes to the objectification of women outside the industry.

FWIW I can do no-feelings-sex-as-a-recreational-activity. I am quite attracted to the idea of an open relationship in theory, though I have concerns about how I would make that work in terms of sexual health, etc. However, I have always been faithful in my relationships because fidelity mattered to my partners and their feelings were more important to me than sex with others.

[YuleingFanjo]

Actually what LaurieFairyCake was so much better!

[NorthernWreck]

Oh, also, OP-just bear in mind that some men pay prostitutes extra for sex without a condom, and some prostitutes are desperate enough for the money to do this.

[NorthernWreck]

This is a bit of an odd OP, with a surprise revelation at the end!

Every woman I know can have no strings sex (and most have had plenty).
My 3 best friends have each slept with over 30 men, and many have been one night stands.
BUT, when a one nighter becomes a two or three nighter, or slips into that grey area where you are "just seeing each other" then, ime, it is women who tend to get hurt.
Often this is because men have a tendency to be a bit vague and slippery rather than saying "I fancy you but I definitly don't want a relationship with you".
And actually, when you are young, if they do say that you don't really beleive them anyway!

Personally, I have had quite a few one night stands, all of which have been fun, and simply put a spring in my step the next day, with no thought of anything more.
However, I have also been in the "just seeing each other" grey area, and always wind up getting a bit attached, and feeling hurt when it becomes clear they don't want to go out with me properly.

The older I get, the more able I am to a) compartmentalise and really know the difference between sex and love and b) refuse to enter into any more vague, casual flings. I know what I don't want anymore.

In my experience, and that of my friends, men just are more able to sleep with someone for months, even years, while not being anywhere near in love, and keeping their emotions separate.

Of course not all men can do this, and interestingly, as men get older I think they actualy beome more similar to women. The gap between men and women does seem to narrow and we share more common ground as we age.

[YuleingFanjo]

"I raised the issue of respect for women and the general responses seemed to be that it was mutual - the man and the woman are adults and know what they are getting into and if expectations are identical, there should not be any ill feelings"

this is true. Having sex with someone doesn't mean disrespecting them, not if bot people are willing and understand the circumstances in which the sex is taking place.

It has nothing to do with infidelity though.

People who do the whole marriage thing, or the committed relationship stuff but then fuck about behind the back of the person they claim to love - they are just shit people with no respect.

Can you define 'confidential' to me please?

You have all the research you needed presumably, what is the general consensus?

[FreudianSlipper]

in a long term relationship for me being faithful is not the be all, i can accept that at times you may stray problem is it can so often become more than just about sex and i would never want to be with someone whso heart and mind are elsewhere. i have been that person cheating, i loved my partner still but i wanted to be with the other person, i thought about them when we were having sex, i wanted to be our for dinner with them not my partner and it was horrible for me to do that to someone at that point in time i had no respect for his feelings and for me respect and love are jsut as important

also i would not be comfortable with a partner going to strip clubs, seeing escorts and so on because i would not be happy with a man who feels it is ok to pay a women for his sexual gratification, its exploitation by far most of these women are suffering (but that is another debate)

[MsF1t]

OP- so your partner and his mates go to strip clubs to take the piss out of girls who 'for some reason want to takes their clothes off in front of strangers'... and that's perfectly fine, because they don't touch them?

How charming.

Has it occurred to you or them that these girls may not be doing it simply for the (undoubted) thrill of being ogled by a bunch of childish middle-aged men?

[Malificence]

As for the OP, the only women who would be ok with infidelity from their partner, especially if it involved paying for sex, either have very low self esteem and/or believe the crap that "it's what men do" or they don't love him and just like the lifestyle too much to put their dignity first.

[Malificence]

Never mind Dingo, hopefully he'll be dead quite soon and you'll have a good few years to have a decent life without him, have you checked his will to make sure he hasn't left his OW what's righfully yours?

[dingo1980]

Thank you sunshineandbooks. I do not know what H's reaction would be. I suspect it would be reluctant acceptance or even enthusiastic acceptance! Yes, it is a good economic partnership and comfortable lifestyle and I have a strong and supportive social group (unlike him). There is a feeling of slightly embarrassed contempt within the family about all of this and the general consensus is that he probably will not change. He certainly cannot discuss with frankness and has always been somewhat economical with the truth. Previous attempts to introduce this woman to mutual friends have been spectacularly unsuccessful and, apart from the gliding club, I think he is pretty isolated from social contact when he is with her. I do wonder what will happen when he can no longer glide; he is 80 after all. When we have social occasions at home it is clear that she would be like a fish out of water so I think I shall continue as I am and lead my life as I wish.

[sunshineandbooks]

dingo I'm sorry you're going through this.

What do you want from your future? Is having a loving relationship with a partner important to you or are you happy to concentrate on relationships with your children and friends? Do you want the intimacy that comes with a long-term relationship or is long term economic security more important to you? Do you want the stability of your current life, even though it may involve being unfulfilled, or do you want to embrace new discoveries, maybe travel a bit, etc.

You can't really decide what you want based on what your H will do. From the sounds of it, he hasn't ever been able to discuss this with you with frankness. He may not even possess enough self-awareness to do this even if he wanted to. Therefore, you have to take him out of the equation in deciding what you want.

You are only 62. If you are in good health you have many, many years ahead of you. How do you want to spend them? Where do you want to be in 10 years time? Those are questions you can answer for yourself.

There is no good or bad decision. Staying is a perfectly valid choice. If you and your H have a perfectly good economic partnership (which is a big part of marriage), and you have an otherwise comfortable lifestyle that you enjoy, then you may feel that your marriage is basically sound despite the infidelity. Marriage is about much more than romantic love, which historically has always been the least important aspect of it. However, if you feel disrespected, unfulfilled, insecure or unhappy in your relationship, then no house is worth hanging on to.

Just out of interest, what would your H's reaction be if you were to say you are happy to continue things as they are but if he's free to conduct an affair so should you be? If he reacted with outrage I would be much more inclined to consider divorce. If it's acceptable for him, why not for you? It suggests he feels he deserves your respect far more than you deserve his, which is a very worrying indication for the future. (That's not to say he has to be happy about it, but he would have to concede your right to do that if he won't give up his attachment. Nor do you have to want to do this - it's more a way of gauging his reaction).

I hope you find a peace with all this.

[PomBearAtTheGatesOfDoom]

There are as many views on sex and relationships as there are people. It depends when you ask someone too - if they are currently in a loving stable relationship they will tend to have one view, but if they are "footloose and fancy free" they may well have another. Same as if someone has children, it will colour their view, or if they have been hurt by infidelity and so on ad infinitum. I don't think their gender necessarily has anything to do with it.

[Whatmeworry]

Some men view sex as an activity much like brushing their teeth, shaving. It's a no strings attached diversion and they do not get attached. They are able to compartmentalize their lives and sex is just that - sex. They do it and its over.

There was a thread on here last week that made it clear women are no different.

While majority of the men who responded on (my blog) claim they would not cheat if they are in a stable and loving relationship, they want to have a healthy and satisfying sexual relationship with their partners because it's one of the ways they express their feelings.

I think that applies to some women too, but I have read that most men express affection via sex. Also IME women who deny their men sex for any extended period put their relationship at risk (and vice versa, but IME its usually the woman that goes off it).

The ones who are not in relationships had a more laissez faire attitude towards sexual activities.

Again, that thread last weekshowed unattached women were just as interested in being laissez faire - all people have needs :)

I think there is a tendency to demonize men and see them as irresponsible where sex or related activities are concerned.

Men are demonised by some as being latent rapists, sexually active women by others as being slags.

[AaaarghAgain]

StrandedBear was talking to the OP dingo1980, the first poster. Don't worry, someone will hopefully be along to talk to you.

[dingo1980]

I am not quite sure what your point is? Of course I have done a study of my situation and of course I should welcome other people's views. It is only me who can make the decision about my actions and currently I feel that my life, and that of my children, should not not change for the worse because of the actions of an inadequate man with a cliche of a woman. On good days I see her as nothing more than a mosquito, annoying but easily squashed.

[AaaarghAgain]

#I think there is a tendency to demonize men and see them as irresponsible where sex or related activities are concerned.

I would agree with that to an extent.

#Some men view sex as an activity much like brushing their teeth, shaving. It's a no strings attached diversion and they do not get attached. They are able to compartmentalize their lives and sex is just that - sex. They do it and its over.

So have I, in the past. Women are just as capable of this.

[AaaarghAgain]

dingo1980. Your situations sounds just awful...I'm not really sure what to advise. My automatic reaction is to say leave, if you can, but I understand it's not really what you want. If you check this thread throughout the day, hopefully someone will be along to talk this through with you, and give advice.

[dingo1980]

So does infidelity really matter? I speak from a confused and long term experience. I am 62 and my husband is 80 - even writing those ages down emphasises the ridiculous situation in which I find myself. To cut a very long story short, husband aged 49 began affair with 17 year old dental nurse (his) shortly after we were married in 1980. This flared up and down through the years but he never wanted to leave. We adopted a son in 1990 and after that there was no more sexual contact although there was physical contact. Another adoption followed in 1992 and in 1998, after many years of trying, an IVF son was born. You may gather from this that having children was a priority for me- less so for him as he already had 2. So maybe some blame can be apportioned to me for the 'neglect' he may have suffered, however it was he who stopped sexual contact. Naively, I thought it was his age and did not push the issue. 2 years ago this woman, now aged 48, resurfaced in a most distressing manner and when he was confronted my husband said that although it should not have happened in the first place, this woman was too important to him to give up. I discovered that he has been on holiday with her to Spain and that she regularly attends the gliding club where he is a member and frequent visitor. He has threatened to 'sell up' but does not want to live with her. He says he wants to stay with me but clearly wishes to remain in contact with her. He has previously bought Cialis and Viagra and I believe that until relatively recently theirs was a sexual relationship. She is truly a 'lowlife'. She has been unemployed for 3 years and thus always available, she is uneducated and really quite horrendous. His 2 adult daughters know and are absolutely against his behaviour. My 2 older sons are horrified and upset and my youngest knows nothing.
My closest friends tell me to keep the status quo, ignore it and carry on with my own life and that his behaviour is a reflection on him, not me. I do not want to lose the house I have lived in for 24 years and I do not want my sons to go through what my step daughters went through. Most of the time I am fine but then the situation pops into my head and I feel desperate. Part of me also feels a bit sorry for her having put her life on hold for so long. To divorce would mean a huge change in life style and comfort. Most of the time I am clear about what I intend to do, ie stay and ignore, but other times I feel very bleak. Views please.

[Birdsgottafly]

I think that your research proved what most people would expect. I think that men have always used the 'sex is only sex line so its ok that i sleep with other people' as an excuse for far to long. You would have to be pretty stupid to not realise the hurt an affair would cause in a marriage.

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

If you are lying and deceiving, you are in the wrong.

If you have agreement to sleep with other people, that's nobody's business but your own.

Looking someone you claim to love in the eye and lying to them makes you a piece of shit.

so, imo, it's all about honesty.