Yr4 dd told by new private tutor that she has learnt nothing in Yr4 and is not ready for Yr5

[Nelluc]

DD is top of her class in literacy and below average in numeracy. The teacher did not seem to be overly worried about this. This was just brought to my attention in a recent parent teacher meeting.

I brought her to Kip McGrath for a free assessment on Saturday and was told that she has learnt nothing in numeracy in Yr4 and is not ready for Yr5. They also said that schools are under great pressure to be positive about pupils and so will be overly positive in meetings with parents. I have enrolled her with KMcG.

My quandary is: should I go into the school and complain that my child has not learnt anything in numeracy this year. Will this mean that they will look unfavourably on me and my child? Also, I have a younger ds at the school in Yr2 can I request that he does not have this teacher in Yr4?

Any advice much appreciated,
Nelluc

[RoadArt]

Just wanted to say that a lot of children forget what they have learned because they dont practice it. they are taught a topic, then move on to a new topic and probably dont go over that topic again until the following year. So is it any wonder they forget.

There are basics you can do at home all the time which include basic facts, counting, recognising patterns, tables, shapes, sizes, volumes. You can do these through games, board games, baking, designing your bedroom/garden, free websites, and do it in a way they dont realise they are practicing or learning something.

Repetition on a regular basis is the best way and keep repeating over the year. Kids learn so much in maths it is hard to remember everything.

[Linnet]

My dd1 goes to Kip McGrath and has come on in leaps and bounds since she started. She is a quiet child who, when faced with something in class she didn't understand,didn't have the nerve to say stop I don't get it. The Kip McGrath class has helped her a lot with her being able to say to her teachers I don't understand and speak up more in class when asked a question.

She seemed to have a lot of trouble remembering what she'd already been taught. She'd learn something,then they'd move on to something else then when it came time to do the tests because she hadn't been using it she'd have forgotten. She now is better at retaining what she's been learning.

I honestly feel it has helped her immensly and only wish I'd sent her there a year or two before but her primary teachers kept telling me that she was fine and that she'd catch up etc which she didn't and I had believed them.

I'm not sure if you should complain to the school, maybe speak to the teacher about how concerned you are though and see what they say.

[xstitch]

I agree, unless the assessed her a year ago there is no way to tell if she has learnt anything or not. Sales technique springs to mind. She's still young so I would buy some of the books from Smiths and work with her. Wouldn't do any harm for you to raise your concerns re her ability with the school.

If it is any consolation when I was your dd's age I could not do maths at all. A few years later something clicked and I caught up and passed the level I needed to be. Straight As in my exams and studied it at university as part of my degree.

[RoadArt]

Also just want to add, we have all these different centres near where I live, they are popping up in every town - Kip McGrath, Numberworks, Kumon, etc., and I know a number of anxious parents who have enrolled their kids in all of them over a period of time. And every one has now moved on to using a private tutor. MOst people do a term and that's it.

Quite often they teach differently to methods used in schools which also cause confusion, so you need to ask your school if your local KMCG does teach the same ways. (There will be teachers in school who have children who do go)

If your child is struggling, then sometimes a different approach is required, you need to know how best your child learns, what her motivations are, what actually helps her.

Also, when at home, use objects to demonstrate counting, arrays, shapes/space, etc. A lot of children understand more when they see something physical to explain/demonstrate what they are supposed to be learning.

[Greythorne]

Hec
I know what you mean but either way, their sentence is bloody clumsy and jarring

See you in Pedants' Corner

[musicposy]

They may have framed the questions in a completely different way to the way she is used to in school. They would have a vested interest in deliberately doing this, tbh.
Little things can make a big difference at primary school level. There are a good few terms for taking away and also for adding. Use one the child hasn't used and they won't be able to answer the question - you get my drift.

Why on earth would you enrol her in KipMcGrath if you have maths at degree level? Just buy some good NC based books and follow them if you need to give her extra help. WHSmith Revise Maths are very good and so are CGP and Bond No Nonsense. If she is behind, start with Y3 and work up.

You are much less likely to be undermining the school's methods this way. After all, KMG have already completely undermined your child's teacher. Really not good. I'm a primary school teacher and I also tutor maths privately. I always work with the school - send in messages to the teacher via the child/ parent as to what they would most like me to help with etc. To take a child you've never seen before and pronounce that they have learnt nothing over the last year is just appalling. If you pay someone like this who is already working against the school you are asking for trouble.

I can link you to some good books you can practise with at home, if you like, do your daughter a favour and save yourself a fortune into the bargain. :)

[RoadArt]

I feel really angry for you that KIp McGrath have played the emotional blackmail game with you, playing on your concerns.

Did the centre assess your child a year ago to e able to make the comparison this year. If they did fair enough but if they didn't then I would take issue with the centre for making these comments.

I would speak to the school about what progress your dd has made, and ask what hEr weaknesses are and what you can do to help.

Centres like KIp McGrath can be fantastic for improving self confidence and motivate children and they do have a place, but they are very expensive. Quite often they say they offer one to one tuition, but the tutor may have four to six children to look after in the same hour.

My personal preference for computer tutoring is WHizz.com. It teaches many different strategies and regularly repeats similar exercises to ensure the concepts are understood. It is brilliant! I recommend 20 mins a day.

There are other maths programs like MAthletics as well but it is not as good for teaching when you don't understand what you are doing.

[nijinsky]

I bet if you somehow got even a teacher to do their test, they would still fail it.

I did a test for a language school online once in a language I'm very proficient in. I failed and was the online response was that I really needed coaching, etc and to do one of their schools. So I got my friend who is a native speaker to do it, and she got exactly the same result.

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

Is it Centres as in more than one centre, or is it centres as in the last word of the organisation? If it is the latter, then 'has' wouldn't be a mistake, would it? Because it would be talking about blah blah blah centres the organisation, so it would be has because it would be the organisation has, not the organisation have.

[Greythorne]

Never heard of Kip McGrath
Just went on to their website
There's a glaring grammatical error on their homepage

Odd that they are coaching kids

[MigratingCoconuts]

I'd steer well clear of this organisation and look to ways you can support her yourseelf. Sound like a bunch of sharks to me.

[sue52]

It could be that in an unfamiliar place with a stranger she panicked and did not perform well. I would speak to the school and if the teacher recommends that your child needs extra tutition, try to find one who is not connected with a franchise like Kip Mcgrath or Kumon and will treat your child as an individual.

[jojowest]

ive never heard of them but of course they are going to say she needs help, otherwise they are doing themselves out of money

think along the lines of Kwikfit and telling you you need four new tyres as well as new brakes when you only had them sorted last week :)

[breathing]

Kip Mcgrath used to live down the road from me. Had his first major store/office on our corner.

[Zippylovesgeorge]

Ummmmmm smacks of money making by this company.

If you want to help your daughter it would be far easier and cheaper to just get some of the books from WH Smiths etc.

[spanky2]

The Catch up programmes may not be funded next year. Usually the schools decide who needs it based on QCA tests. It is for children who are likely to get just below a level 4 in y6 SATs. It's quite a narrow range for qualification and OP's dd might not fit the criteria. I think your best bet is to do abit extra at home. Schools teach a different method now adays, so you might need to check so you re-inforce what happened at school.

[Lizzywishes]

How can they possibly say she's learnt nothing in Y 4, unless they assessed her at both the start and end of the year? Their opinion is worthless. She's too young for tutors.

[alistron1]

Your DD may well be struggling at numeracy. In Y4 the focus changes from learning stuff to applying it - so if kids don't have a sound grasp of the basics they can get left behind.

I have a maths degree, my kids are all highly numerate 'cos maths is my interest and when they were little I made it my business to teach them to count, add, subtract, multiply, divide, do fractions, percentages, times tables..

If you have a maths degree then surely you can reinforce the basics?

One problem with the numeracy curriculum (IMHO) in primary schools is that there is no space for the basics to be reinforced. Kids are being pushed on to relational concepts before they have a good operational understanding. This is no fault of individual teachers - the curriculum is just too fast paced.

[Nelluc]

Thank you - will speak to teacher.
You have saved me from giving the school a piece of my mind.
Phew.

[clam]

What worraliberty said.
Bloody Kip Mcgrath. Almost as bad as Kumon.

[HandMini]

I think you should talk to her class teacher too and let him/her know your concerns, but given the young age of your child and the fact that you're a maths whizz, you definitely don't need to be private coaching at this stage - surely just running through a few times tables with her once or twice a day in odd moments?

[spanky2]

Also, I have English at degree level and my ds1 is scraping average in Literacy. He couldn't write his name until october half term of yr. It doesn't really mean anything. Everyone is good at different things.

[HecateQueenOfTheNight]

No. Don't complain.

Work with the school. You're a team. Make an appt and talk through her progress, her ability - her actual ability, not a mother's perception of her child's ability - and see how you can work together to help her with her weak areas.

[worraliberty]

Unless they asessed your child in year 3, how the hell could they know she's learnt nothing in year 4?