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I used to be Muslim -AMA

113 replies

Tiddlywinx · 16/09/2022 22:07

Born and raised Anglican, became Muslim in my early 20s after much research and having really enjoyed the academic side of Islam, now 10 years on, I’m ‘meh’, I wouldn’t say I’ve renounced it in a mic drop sense but I do feel apathetic.

I know this (leaving Islam) has garnered headlines in the news and it’s not that kind of post, I’m actually secretly hoping it might help me organise my thoughts, so AMA- I won’t hold back.

just to say, my experiences are just that, mine, and any negative ones I’ve had obviously aren’t universal and they don’t represent an entire religion/ minority community/
sect/ ethnic group.

also, please no takfiri death threats/ going to hell stuff, it will push me further from the deen and further some rather nasty stereotypes

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stripyspider · 21/09/2022 16:27

OP what are your thoughts on Sikhism ? It seems to cover a sense of one God, without the trinitarian aspects of Christianity you struggle with ? Very big focus on community and equality.

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Tiddlywinx · 20/09/2022 09:01

mathanxiety · 20/09/2022 02:04

that’s pretty much the Islamic point, that there’s more to the bible and the NT than what Jesus said or revelation ergo it’s innovation and the Quran came to correct it.

Even going on the words of Jesus alone, did he not pass on the authority to teach and to forgive sin to the Apostles?

muslims don’t believe that Jesus’s words are still in tact and preserved as such . The basic point is, anything that is confirmed by the Quran or sunnah is true and everything that’s negated was bidah, for instance people forgiving on behalf of god, that’s a direct contradiction to Islam, there are no intermediaries for god on earth and only god can condemn or pardon. That attracted me also, but as I was CoE the papacy and intermediaries were less of a n issue

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mathanxiety · 20/09/2022 02:04

that’s pretty much the Islamic point, that there’s more to the bible and the NT than what Jesus said or revelation ergo it’s innovation and the Quran came to correct it.

Even going on the words of Jesus alone, did he not pass on the authority to teach and to forgive sin to the Apostles?

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mathanxiety · 20/09/2022 01:54

@Naijagal the Nicene Creed is the basic exposition of the Trinity.

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
.............

This ^^ is the Catholic version I am familiar with.

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Tiddlywinx · 19/09/2022 23:19

Naijagal · 19/09/2022 22:23

Thanks for the reply.

Are you saying you don’t believe in those things anymore, which now makes you a non Muslim?
I didn’t see that in your description.
Has your belief in Mohammed dissipated?

The Nicene creed is just a statement of what Christians believe, it’s not what makes people “Christian”
Plus there’s no mention of trinity in the creed, infact the beginning says

”We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible”
Which is stated in the Bible severally, there is only one God.

Not sure what you mean by being too literal, but thanks for correcting me that Jesus isnt “ordinary” according to the Quran I do wonder why it’s a bone of contention that he didn't die though…
anyways I do hope you find the truth and a community that you love and loves you.
All the best.

It’s more that I’m not sure if I believe in anything, sometimes I wonder if it’s all just a big con. But there is a huge huge amount of evidence that Muhammad physically existed, more than Jesus actually, so then I think why would anyone lie, and then feel confused.

sorry but the nicene creed definitely references god in 3 persons.

www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe

the bone of contention is that Jesus died for the sins of the world and was resurrected, it’s not what Muslims believe. The contention is that it’s just not what the Quran teaches. Islam and Christianity have different concepts of salvation

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Naijagal · 19/09/2022 22:23

Tiddlywinx · 19/09/2022 19:46

Is not nicene creed central to Christianity? I think it is…

well, ive never been a literalist scripture wise. Christian doctrine that Jesus did on the cross and was resurrected and then ascended to heaven, Muslims believe it was made to look like Jesus died but he actually didn’t but that he still ascended to heaven.

muslims believe Jesus was an ordinary man ie human and not god incarnate but not that he was just an ordinary man ie your average joe. Islamically Jesus was a man of impeccable character and chosen by god to be both a messenger and a prophet, and he performed miracles too, he did so because god allowed him to, not because he was god. I thinks you’re being too literal with the thinking that Jesus was an ordinary man.

to be a Muslim is it believe that there is 1 god and Muhammad was his messenger. If you believe those, then the theoretically you are Muslim.

It goes a bit deeper there are 6 pillars of faith:
-belief in god, his books (Torah, book of psalms, gospel and the Quran), angels, his messengers (all the OT and NT testaments + Muhammad, belief in the last day, and gods plan / destiny.

Thanks for the reply.

Are you saying you don’t believe in those things anymore, which now makes you a non Muslim?
I didn’t see that in your description.
Has your belief in Mohammed dissipated?

The Nicene creed is just a statement of what Christians believe, it’s not what makes people “Christian”
Plus there’s no mention of trinity in the creed, infact the beginning says

”We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible”
Which is stated in the Bible severally, there is only one God.

Not sure what you mean by being too literal, but thanks for correcting me that Jesus isnt “ordinary” according to the Quran I do wonder why it’s a bone of contention that he didn't die though…
anyways I do hope you find the truth and a community that you love and loves you.
All the best.

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Tiddlywinx · 19/09/2022 21:02

Fieldfly · 19/09/2022 20:37

Najgal - I wasn’t asking you! This is ama - we are asking the op the questions.

Just to copy what I said above

I believe it’s the same god, that’s pretty much Islamic thought too.

i Personally believe Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same god. It actually makes me quite sad when I think about it, nearly 3 billion people who squabble and fight over how best to worship and love the same thing

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Fieldfly · 19/09/2022 20:37

Najgal - I wasn’t asking you! This is ama - we are asking the op the questions.

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Tiddlywinx · 19/09/2022 19:46

Naijagal · 19/09/2022 16:58

Hi @Tiddlywinx What is it exactly that makes a person a Muslim? If someone said to you today, I want to become a Muslim, what do you say to them?

** Unfortunately you’ve gotten it wrong that believing in trinity is what makes a person a Christian.
The Bible clearly states that whoever trusts in Jesus, who He is, what he did and follows/obeys His commands is saved (and hence called Christian). There’s no mention of trinity in the Bible it might be alluded to but it’s not what makes a person Christian.**

Also I find it interesting that you were happy to believe that an ordinary man ascended to heaven, but found it hard to believe that an extraordinary man could die and get resurrected (also ascended in the biblical texts)

Is not nicene creed central to Christianity? I think it is…

well, ive never been a literalist scripture wise. Christian doctrine that Jesus did on the cross and was resurrected and then ascended to heaven, Muslims believe it was made to look like Jesus died but he actually didn’t but that he still ascended to heaven.

muslims believe Jesus was an ordinary man ie human and not god incarnate but not that he was just an ordinary man ie your average joe. Islamically Jesus was a man of impeccable character and chosen by god to be both a messenger and a prophet, and he performed miracles too, he did so because god allowed him to, not because he was god. I thinks you’re being too literal with the thinking that Jesus was an ordinary man.

to be a Muslim is it believe that there is 1 god and Muhammad was his messenger. If you believe those, then the theoretically you are Muslim.

It goes a bit deeper there are 6 pillars of faith:
-belief in god, his books (Torah, book of psalms, gospel and the Quran), angels, his messengers (all the OT and NT testaments + Muhammad, belief in the last day, and gods plan / destiny.

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Tiddlywinx · 19/09/2022 19:34

Naijagal · 19/09/2022 17:01

Clearly not the same as God revealed in the Bible came to this world in the person of Jesus to give proof that God really exists and what His character is like but The Quran says that this same Jesus was just an ordinary man.

well Muslims believe it is the same god, just worshipped in different ways, which is why Muslims can eat the meat of the Christian’s and Jews and muslim men can marry them. Of the disbelievers Jews and Christians hold a higher status and there are verses that say they will go to heaven too.

i Personally believe Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same god. It actually makes me quite sad when I think about it, nearly 3 billion people who squabble and fight over how best to worship and love the same thing

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headstone · 19/09/2022 17:35

I am a convert too, a lot of dust you say resonates with me. I have not lost faith in God, but I struggle following the religion at all now. There doesn’t seem much scope for women except remaining hidden and quiet. My Husband’s family are from North Africa and have been extremely kind and welcoming to me. My immediate issue is that my brother will gay and my dh won’t let my younger children be around him and his partner, it is breaking my heart.
The reason why I went from Christianity to Islam is in part because my husband explains the religion do beautifully, I Also like the fundamental belief surrounding God, it makes so much sense compared to the trinity.

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Naijagal · 19/09/2022 17:01

Fieldfly · 19/09/2022 08:38

Do you believe that the Christian god and Islamic god are the same thing - just worshipped in different ways?

Clearly not the same as God revealed in the Bible came to this world in the person of Jesus to give proof that God really exists and what His character is like but The Quran says that this same Jesus was just an ordinary man.

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Naijagal · 19/09/2022 16:58

Tiddlywinx · 18/09/2022 20:13

Ok my point is to be Christian is to believe in the trinity, i don’t.

and yes that’s pretty much the Islamic point, that there’s more to the bible and the NT than what Jesus said or revelation ergo it’s innovation and the Quran came to correct it.

Hi @Tiddlywinx What is it exactly that makes a person a Muslim? If someone said to you today, I want to become a Muslim, what do you say to them?

** Unfortunately you’ve gotten it wrong that believing in trinity is what makes a person a Christian.
The Bible clearly states that whoever trusts in Jesus, who He is, what he did and follows/obeys His commands is saved (and hence called Christian). There’s no mention of trinity in the Bible it might be alluded to but it’s not what makes a person Christian.**

Also I find it interesting that you were happy to believe that an ordinary man ascended to heaven, but found it hard to believe that an extraordinary man could die and get resurrected (also ascended in the biblical texts)

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Fieldfly · 19/09/2022 08:38

Do you believe that the Christian god and Islamic god are the same thing - just worshipped in different ways?

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Fieldfly · 19/09/2022 08:37

It all sounds very sad and lonely to me, with horrible ignorance and bullying in the name of religion. Why are you not able to return to your family and cultural roots and just be a person who doesn’t have much to do with organised religion? You say you can’t tell your family because they would be happy and you don’t want that - why? I would definitely be happy if you were my daughter and were finally free from the sad life you describe.

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Tiddlywinx · 18/09/2022 23:58

Goldenbrowndixi · 18/09/2022 21:53

I could have written this post myself lol, although I never actually ‘came out’ to my family about being a Muslim which I suppose has made it easier to leave, although still I struggle with it. I reverted quite young around 16 and tbh fell quite heavily into the salafi ideology. Although due to my age I couldn’t openly share my belief with family I would wear niqab at the masjid, nasheeds only, and became honestly quite argumentative (online) to ‘deviator’ sects like Ahmadi Ismaili etc. I began to fall out of love with it when the more Hadith I would read honestly I just saw things that went against the way I was raised, blatant homophobia, (relative) sexism and the teachings of the salaf on the punishment for homosexuality. Now I’m only 19 so not really long out of practicing but I get really anxious that I will either return to my religious life and regret it after something like marriage etc or go to hell. I suppose my question is how did you get to this point where you are quite calm about the whole religion, believing or not

might you have attended a mosque that has a colour in its name?

it sounds as if you went from 0-60 quite quickly, you were also quite a bit younger than me when I converted. I always disliked sectarianism and this whole proving other sects are deviant or misguided because of xyz so I always gave that a wide berth and avoided those conversations. Because they didn’t sit right me me internally, likewise the homophobia and the sexism. So I’d attend those mosques and basically cherry pick, or as I saw it take the good and leave the bad. I just couldn’t and can’t get behind those types of othering

im a bit confused about your question? You worry you’ll get more religious again and then get married? Do you mean end up married to a ‘religious’ man but the type that uses religion to basically subjugate his wife? Well I don’t worry about that because my husband isn’t like that.

with my first child I had that thinking, that I was being punished with pregnancy complications that would impact my child (potentially leading to still birth) because I wasn’t a good enough Muslim and I’d been hit and miss with prayers etc. Now I think bad things happen to good people and it’s not because you or I deserve it, unfortunately it’s just life. Do I worry about going to hell? Yes! I worry about it in terms of not being a good enough mum and getting cross with my kids, for maybe failing this test of people as now I’m doubting my faith. But then I do try and remember something a Catholic priest once told me actually when I asked him about having doubts, and he said he was once chastised as a trainee (sure there’s a proper word for it) by an old very wealthy very privileged woman for having doubts during a tough period of time. He said that it’s very easy for someone who’s gone through life with relative ease to, scold and say you shouldn’t have doubts, but when you’re struggling to get through each day, it’s natural to have some doubts and you can expect highs and lows over the course of your life. Couldn’t get behind some of the other doctrinal things he said but this one stuck.

maybe there is a mid ground for you? Not extreme conservativism or completely disbelief, maybe you’ll come to find a middle ground you feel comfortable with.

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magma32 · 18/09/2022 21:59

@red4321
i agree with OP it could be that once people are newly converted or practising they seem to be attracted to the stricter versions possibly as they like the discipline that comes with it and/or feel like they have to prove themselves to the more established Muslims but don’t realise how much they’re isolating those around them, especially if you’re not muslim.

I’m born muslim and when my brother met his wife (both born muslim) she was practising one these strict versions due to her brothers and my brother was obviously on board with it as he was hanging around with these types, he was almost smug that he was a ‘better’ muslim than the rest of us and we just found him difficult to be around, especially as he’d pick out what we were doing wrong according to him, he told me I dressed like a sl**, shouldn’t be friends with non Muslims etc even though my parents never had a problem mixing with non Muslims people (they were 1st generation Pakistani immigrants Very conservative but were all for mixing as long as you didn’t compromise your own beliefs) he was sick a kill joy but over the years he mellowed out probably because he had kids and realised it wasn’t sustainable, maybe that will happen for your brother. Also some Pakistanis have some ideas that we can only mix it with ‘people of the book’ ie Christians and Jews but not Hindus etc as they are polytheists, or eat from their homes I swear they make it up to suit their own politics.

i have to say you are very patient, I guess he hasn’t yet told you you’re going to hell because you don’t do x y or z as I had to deal with that and I really thought wtf. It just seemed really juvenile. It really strained our relationship and even though he’s quite a mainstream Muslim now I still have a lot of resentment for the way he behaved towards us. I still don’t think he’s gained my respect back and I found those years really damaging for me as a young Muslim woman but because dynamic is different with your brother it shouldn’t really come to that. Hopefully he will chill out soon.

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Goldenbrowndixi · 18/09/2022 21:53

I could have written this post myself lol, although I never actually ‘came out’ to my family about being a Muslim which I suppose has made it easier to leave, although still I struggle with it. I reverted quite young around 16 and tbh fell quite heavily into the salafi ideology. Although due to my age I couldn’t openly share my belief with family I would wear niqab at the masjid, nasheeds only, and became honestly quite argumentative (online) to ‘deviator’ sects like Ahmadi Ismaili etc. I began to fall out of love with it when the more Hadith I would read honestly I just saw things that went against the way I was raised, blatant homophobia, (relative) sexism and the teachings of the salaf on the punishment for homosexuality. Now I’m only 19 so not really long out of practicing but I get really anxious that I will either return to my religious life and regret it after something like marriage etc or go to hell. I suppose my question is how did you get to this point where you are quite calm about the whole religion, believing or not

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red4321 · 18/09/2022 21:46

Actually I'm not sure what area of Pakistan she lived in. My brother tries to follow his religious beliefs to the letter so he's happy to support her choice. As are my parents to a point although it does mean my SIL doesn't really stay much as it's a bit difficult food-wise.

But I think you have to see the funny side. Boxing Day lunch was coronation chicken, salmon, quiche (my mother loves a 70s menu) and a surprise addition of (an extremely spicy) chicken biryani. There was a lot of cold water consumed to quell the hot mouth situation...

Thank you for the AMA, I've found it very interesting.

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Tiddlywinx · 18/09/2022 21:33

red4321 · 18/09/2022 21:12

She won’t eat food made by your parents? That’s outrageous! Even vegetarian or halal meat? Even the Most conservative Muslim scholars think that’s ok!

what a slap In the face to your parents

is she a convert too?


No, not even halal meat, fish or vegetables. I think she feels uncomfortable that non-halal meat has previously been cooked in my parents' pans. She does bring her own food but it makes hosting a bit tricky at times.

I should add that my SIL is lovely. She's had a tough life, came to the U.K. from Pakistan at 13 (but on a passport showing her age as 18), had three children by the age of 16 (not via my brother) and has lived here for 40 years. She can't read or write and is one of the hardest-working people I know, although it's tough earning a decent wage in her circumstances.

well She definitely sounds like she’s had a tough life, is she from close to the Afghan border? But the food thing is ridiculous and it’s not even Islamic. Your parents are lovely for continuing to entertain them, many would have been very offended and stopped. Your brother probably has explained to her it’s ok but must be something she was brought up to think

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red4321 · 18/09/2022 21:12

She won’t eat food made by your parents? That’s outrageous! Even vegetarian or halal meat? Even the Most conservative Muslim scholars think that’s ok!

what a slap In the face to your parents

is she a convert too?


No, not even halal meat, fish or vegetables. I think she feels uncomfortable that non-halal meat has previously been cooked in my parents' pans. She does bring her own food but it makes hosting a bit tricky at times.

I should add that my SIL is lovely. She's had a tough life, came to the U.K. from Pakistan at 13 (but on a passport showing her age as 18), had three children by the age of 16 (not via my brother) and has lived here for 40 years. She can't read or write and is one of the hardest-working people I know, although it's tough earning a decent wage in her circumstances.

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Tiddlywinx · 18/09/2022 20:50

red4321 · 18/09/2022 20:24

  • I can’t imagine he has female friends either, and most social groups do tend to have some sort of mix. Tbh I think people like that tend to gravitate towards their own, as even quite a lot of other Muslims would find this extreme.
    so you can absolutely have non Muslim friends, but it’s ‘better’ to be friends with people who remind you of Allah, and I suspect your brother probably pays close attention to that.*

    Thank you, I found your reply very interesting. Yes, it can be pretty hard pleasing everyone at family gatherings! It also means my SIL won't eat any food cooked by my parents.

    I'm very respectful of religion and I love my brother but I find some of the rules he has accepted for women really hard to empathise with. I also can't imagine wanting to accept some of the restrictions my SIL has lived with. Although I have lots of female Muslim friends who don't live the same type of lifestyle so I'm sure it varies hugely.

She won’t eat food made by your parents? That’s outrageous! Even vegetarian or halal meat? Even the Most conservative Muslim scholars think that’s ok!

what a slap In the face to your parents

is she a convert too?

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red4321 · 18/09/2022 20:24

  • I can’t imagine he has female friends either, and most social groups do tend to have some sort of mix. Tbh I think people like that tend to gravitate towards their own, as even quite a lot of other Muslims would find this extreme.
    so you can absolutely have non Muslim friends, but it’s ‘better’ to be friends with people who remind you of Allah, and I suspect your brother probably pays close attention to that.*

    Thank you, I found your reply very interesting. Yes, it can be pretty hard pleasing everyone at family gatherings! It also means my SIL won't eat any food cooked by my parents.

    I'm very respectful of religion and I love my brother but I find some of the rules he has accepted for women really hard to empathise with. I also can't imagine wanting to accept some of the restrictions my SIL has lived with. Although I have lots of female Muslim friends who don't live the same type of lifestyle so I'm sure it varies hugely.
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Neverendingdust · 18/09/2022 20:20

Honestly OP, save yourself the mental gymnastics and don’t have any religion. Life is far more simple when you answer to yourself. My belief is ‘God’ could exist, but I don’t think our idealistic notions are anything close to what the truth is.

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Tiddlywinx · 18/09/2022 20:13

mathanxiety · 18/09/2022 19:19

There is much more in the New Testament then the words of Jesus though, just as there is much more in the OT than God speaking. Christianity emphasises the NT as the fulfillment of the OT, the revelation of a new law based on divine love rather than details of observance found in the OT and the sects of the time of Jesus. The Word is considered to consist of both OT and NT, which can't be seen separately.

Ok my point is to be Christian is to believe in the trinity, i don’t.

and yes that’s pretty much the Islamic point, that there’s more to the bible and the NT than what Jesus said or revelation ergo it’s innovation and the Quran came to correct it.

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