I am a post-op transgender man - AMA

[iamthespark]

Hello everyone!

Just as the title says, really. My name is Fabian. I am a post-operative transgender man - meaning I was assigned female at birth and affirmed my gender as male as I grew up, first on a societal level and then through surgery - who has some time to kill after the annual Christmas Mess. The life and times of transgender people seems to be a bit of a topic of conversation on MN (and in the world as a whole), so I thought it might be nice to shed some light on some questions, if I can.

Intentionally goady or deliberately insulting comments will be laughed at - there's honestly nothing I've not heard before, and my skin has grown very thick over the years - but for the most part, I truly will answer absolutely anything. I work on the assumption that all questions are genuine, however they might be worded, so I'll treat pretty much everything as such.

I hope everyone had a lovely holiday!

[Italiangreyhound]

@iamthespark I've just found this section of mumsmet again! Forgot it was here! Is it too late to ask you a question?

[KataraJean]

I agree re unisex facilities in addition to single-sex spaces, there are ‘gender-neutral’ facilities at my workplace.
My comments were in response to the OP’s words, which talked about using single-sex spaces. If she commented on unisex spaces, I missed it.

[Snowdrop30]

I agree with Shots. I use unisex facilities all the time (disabled). Many of the loos at my place of work are "access to all", so fully converted for disabilities and totally enclosed for folk who would like more privacy (for whatever reason), or who just want to use the nearest loo. Transfolk use them, but are not singled out in doing so. It is not a big deal - it doesn't invalidate anyone, but preserves single sex spaces for those who need/prefer them.

[ShotsFired]

The answer to this usually logically shakes out as providing a separate sex neutral facility.

This maintains the sanctity of sex segregated facilities for the majority, but adds an option for the smaller group who don't mind.

However this has been roundly dismisses as transphobic/insert -ism of choice, thereby proving it's far more about the wider group of the target sex validating the individual trans person, than their much-vaunted claim to just want to wee in safety.

[KataraJean]

I think this is an insightful and engaging thread, thank you for your time in writing it spark.

I have been thinking about it a lot. Ultimately I agree with ShotsFired though that it comes down to consent. And if natal females do not consent (individually or as a group) for natal men to be in their spaces, why should anyone overrule that?

Your answer seems to come down to ‘it would have been much easier for me to be allowed in male bathrooms when I was pre/still transitioning’ unless I misunderstood you. It does not seem to consider why that might not be easier for those who object, or at least if you do consider this, the objections are dismissed and you come round to ‘there will be some way to sort it out’ or words to that effect.

But if one party is saying no, there is not a way to sort it out, unless you ignore that no. And when it comes to bodily privacy and autonomy, do you really want to set a precedent for ignoring women saying no? It does not matter how you dress it up, if the argument is that a solution can somehow be found to let self-IDing transgender people into opposite sex bathrooms, you are ignoring the natal sex people using those bathrooms who do not wish this.

The only solution which that comes to is that the natal sex people who do not wish to share their same-sex spaces do not access it themselves. It is the only way to have one’s no respected. I think that is a sad outcome for women who have every right to fully participate in civic life and for whom same sex spaces are useful, necessary and hard won.

None of which means I do not respect your struggles or your journey, shared so eloquently here.

[Doobigetta]

Hi iamthespark, thank you for this thread. I hope I’m not too late.
Thinking through what you’ve said about single sex spaces- and I appreciate that you said you don’t have the answer, I’m interested in your opinion here rather than trying to catch you out. Do you think it’s fair to say that self ID, and treating transgender people in exactly the same way as people born in the sex they live as, would cause more harm to natal females than to anyone else? It doesn’t matter to natal men if you are allowed to compete in men’s sport- they have a biological advantage over you. It is vanishingly unlikely that a transman would fight to be moved to a male prison (I think there are actually no FTM transgender people in prison in the UK). Nobody seems to be attempting to call men “ejaculators”. It really does seem as though all the concessions are being expected of women, not of men. Do you agree with that assessment? And if you agree, do you think it’s fair? Inevitable?

[Bumbers]

@iamthespark Thank you for this thread. You have been wonderful throughout. Very thoughtful and considered responses.

[2019StandingforWomen]

I'm not read the whole thread because I gave up because it seemed to me that you don't care about women actually if you think that males should be able to compete against women in sports for example.

It felt to me as though I was reading another tactic from Mermaids. They realise that being horrible against women isn't going to work and so they are now trying to come across as compassionate and reasoned. I'm afraid whilst it reads very nicely I don't agree with the points that you are putting across at all.

If you are real and not just an advert then I wish you all the best of course however you're not a man you're a trans man and it seems like a horrific thing to inflict upon your body to end up living a life of pretence.

It is not a lifestyle choice that should be promoted in my opinion.

[MonsterTequila]

Hi Fabian,

Just wanted to ask if you believe in male privilege & if you’ve noticed any difference in how society treats you since transitioning?

[AthenaWhite]

You sound lovely op.

I have lovely Christian friends, nice people but I disagree with the ideology they hold dear.

You think females spaces should also include males, female sports should include males, males spaces should include females. On these points we have to disagree.

I'm glad you're happy with your choices and I sincerely hope the medication you use has no ill affects. I find your reasoning sexist and if it is adopted it's women and girls who will suffer.

Same old, same old I guess

[spreadingchestnuttree]

I appreciate your answers and am taking you at face value. I think sensible debate is the only good way forwards.

Another question for you... How can an 11yo girl who is attracted to girls, and has feelings of gender dysphoria / gender non-conformity know whether she's a lesbian or trans?

[Ginger153]

I'm grateful for your thread. It's one of very few things I've read in this whole, painful debate that has been respectful and honest, even when clear answers aren't available from either side. I've not read other MN threads on the subject, mostly twitter hate. You've given me things to think about and it's appreciated.

[iamthespark]

This is what I mean - I say I'm going to give a 'very quick' response and I talk bollocks for five paragraphs. I do totally understand how that comes across as deliberately misleading, in hindsight - I apologise. I was always terrible at writing to wordcounts in school.

[iamthespark]

Hi all - I'm working today so won't be able to engage too heavily, but I'll try and respond to a few of the outstanding questions later or tomorrow, if appropriate.

I just wanted to say very quickly that I apologise if it seems as though I'm deliberately using obfuscating or wordy language in an attempt to veil my point. It wasn't the intention - it's just the way I talk. I expect it's annoying, but I promise I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I'm just a wordy git.

I'd also like to say that I don't intend to change anyone's mind on anything major! You have your opinions; I have mine, and it's clear that they don't match up, which is totally fine. However, questions have been asked of me by different people, and I gave an honest answer from my own perspective - I don't intend to force anything on anybody. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was pushing a point or an agenda and neglecting those of others - it wasn't my intention, and I'll be aware of it in future.

As stated, I do sympathise with the point of view of posters here and I understand the concerns. I'm not at all suggesting that all sex-segregated spaces should suddenly and immediately be opened up to a wave of anyone who wants to use them, with no thought to peoples' comfort and safety. Again, I don't know the answer to that question, nor how things should proceed. I have approximately zero influence on whether or not trans people should be allowed access to same-sex spaces - I simply stated my position on the topic when asked about it. I apologise if I railroaded or pressured my point too heavily.

If people are disappointed in my responses or the way I engaged with certain topics, I am sorry for that. I'm only one person, and I'm not the voice of the whole community - if I don't know the solution to something, or am unsure of how to respond to a dilemma, I can only say so. I'd rather do that than make something up off the cuff!

If people have heard enough and think this thread has run its course, then I'm happy to let it drop.

Thanks all for your time - have a lovely New Year!

[Kardashianlove]

Hi OP, just wanted to ask a bit further about your response in relation to puberty blockers given to children, blockers are an opportunity to 'pause' things, as it were

Just wondering if you actually believe this is true and puberty blockers do no/little harm and literally just ‘pause things’ until feelings and emotions have settled?

You say you wish you would have taken blockers and also mention your ability to orgasm. Do you worry about blockers potentially stopping the ability to ever orgasm?

[Truckingonandon]

Shots fired - very well said. As this thread went on, it became increasingly clear that the OP was rolling out exactly the same old stuff, albeit in a very wordy, engaging, eloquent way. Bullshit baffles brains n all that.

[Hyppolyta]

I dont think there is any possibility for debate here though.

OP, like many others, doesnt want gendered spaces, but to use spaces of the opposite sex for validation.

Thats one point of view, my personal view is completely opposite. I dont think my son should have to use urinals in front of females.

There isnt really a middle ground, is there?

[donquixotedelamancha]

I'm afraid I can't for the life of me think what JW and KW could be!

I assume KW is the transvestite rapist Karen White, who sexually assaulted a number of women after self-IDing into a women's prison.

I too would be interested to hear where and how you feel the line for 'genuine' transgender people should be drawn.

We're not your enemy.

I think it's worth noting that I have encountered no-one in the feminist community on MN, which is campaigning hard against self-ID and the Stonewall vision, who thinks transgender people as a group are the enemy. There are doubtless a few who are motivated by bigotry but they are smart enough to keep quiet about it, because when genuine transphobia rears its ugly head it is shouted down vociferously.

[donquixotedelamancha]

It's just more politely phrased because female socialisation.

I agree with the general point but I think it's more likely to be politely phrased becasue the OP has thought carefully about how to make a persuasive argument and considers each response before posting. Personally I like that- if I'm going to hold a set of beliefs I want to hear the best arguments I'm wrong to see whether I change my mind.

The ability to talk and argue about this topic is very important. If this debate was able to be had in this way 3 years ago, in the public domain, then we would be in a very different place. It is the people urinating on academic's doors, hitting middle aged feminists, vandalising locations and sending threats to venues (in the OP's name) who are the enemy of all of us.

I do think the differences between the OPs position and the hard TRA position (biological sex exists and thus there can be debate about sex based rights and protections) are important.

[Hazardswan]

Lovely thread OP!

You indicated that trans as an umbrella term has widened but the debate hasn't widened with it. If we're stuck with the umbrella term (can you tell im not a fan ) how would you like the debate to widen? What do you feel needs to be included in the debate?

[ShotsFired]

I must admit I'm a little distrustful of your linguistic style - overly wordy and makes me feel either that we are being led by the nose or that obfuscation is going on.

I engaged in good faith, but if you skim the thread and read only OPs responses, it's the same as every other trans person who's come along to re-educate us - namely the "I'm lovely, and I just know I'm male/female even though I can't explain what a male/female is; I don't have any answers to the huge questions you're trying to resolve, but I think trans people should be allowed in all opposite sex-segregated spaces; I think people should respect whatever someone says they are..." etc

It's just more politely phrased because female socialisation. They still think some nebulous feeling for one should take precedence over tried and tested safeguards for all. And also completely swerve the elephant in the room of male violence bring the root cause, even though they are happy to throw all women under the bus for their happiness.

[NotAnotherJaffaCake]

Thanks for the answer. I must admit I'm a little distrustful of your linguistic style - overly wordy and makes me feel either that we are being led by the nose or that obfuscation is going on.

You say you were so certain you weren't a woman. How did you then jump to the conclusion that being a man was the answer? Why not being a cat, or dog? Somewhat facetious here, but hopefully you see the point. You had no idea before transition what manhood is, so how do you know it's what you are? And do you ever think about cultural appropriation?

[MummySharkDoDo]

I’ve found this very interesting, you come across as someone I can understand.

I wonder in a way though if your f to m journey as given you a greater understanding of how women feel and awareness of others. I’ve never had any negative thoughts about trans people, until being exposed recently to repeated male violence stereotypes. Some m to f remind me of the worst most violent men I’ve met, going on twitter and threatening to hit people, abusive comments about appearance, physical threats etc. It’s hard to say how, but it’s a concentration of the fear you get in the company of violent men all their terf bashing stuff. I can’t equate that with female, and it makes me want to protect female space. Even if it’s a tiny minority, they are loud enough to be threatening. I went to a night out a while ago, three women near 7ft in huge heels were very aggressive when I went to step in their lift.

On the other hand I recognise the vulnerability of trans men (your experience of being beaten up seems to confirm this, it’s awful that happened). I can see many biological women posing a threat or scaring any men in male only space if they tried! Maybe thinking about it it’s just a younger crowd? The few trans women I know transitioned late in life and I knew as gentle family men before?

What are your thoughts on the intimidating aspect of trans women, not just that they are riled up, but they are actually a threat to women in some cases?

[ocelot41]

Has anything surprised you about the responses you have had here OP?