Sacked for GM

[BumpleLeeds]

I'm in a dilemma and just wanted some opinions, please...

My partner has been sacked for gross misconduct and I'm not sure how I should feel / what we should do. I don't want to talk to friends about this yet as I'm not sure how they will react, and I don't want this to impact on our children. Our parents do know the full situation and are being very supportive.

Without going into full details, I'm confident that the reason for his dismissal was a one-off mistake on his part - and his line manager has said that they think the HR department have been extremely hard on him. However, this situation has put our family in a dire situation. He's appealing his employer's decision, while at the same time actively looking for work. He's had one interview for a job so far, and explained what has happened during the interview (as it would have come out in a reference). He didn't hear anything back, even after approaching the company for feedback. I'm worried that this whole situation could mean he's unemployable. I'm working, but can't support our family on my own.

This is a mess, and I need to keep things together as he's very depressed that he's the cause of all this. Does anyone have any advice as to how he can approach looking for other work given the situation?

[Iwillneverbesatisfied]

is he in a union? I'm guessing not?

He's doing the right thing by appealing.

I would recommend he make a subject access request for all information they have on file about him and for a copy of his disciplinary record and notes - this will give him a better idea of what he has done wrong and help him with his appeal.

It can also establish if proper procedures were followed - check the ACAS website for advice on the process that should be followed for dismissal. if it wasn't followed, he could make a claim. He could try early conciliation which is free to do yourself (if you take it further, to tribunal, you need a solicitor)

It all depends really on what he did, what evidence they have and whether they followed proper procedures. Def. speak to ACAS

[thesandwich]

Check your house insurance policy to see if you have cover for family legal aid.

[gurglebelly]

Did he do what he was accused of? The problem is that pretty much everyone who gets caught puts it down to a mistake so companies are not very sympathetic if it is something he has had appropriate training in (eg if he's had training on what can and can't be claimed through expenses/put on a company credit card and he's still claimed inappropriately or used the credit card for family Christmas presents)

It's good he's appealed but it's hard to give advice without knowing a bit more. He needs proper mitigation, what caused the mistake/did he gave appropriate training/had he signed up to policies etc

[Regularsizedrudy]

He shouldn’t be telling prospective employers about what has happened, if he’s still in an appeal process with his current work they will likely agree a neutral reference for him so his is causing needless damage by giving this information to potential employers.

[Twistiesandshout]

@Regularsizedrudy

He shouldn’t be telling prospective employers about what has happened, if he’s still in an appeal process with his current work they will likely agree a neutral reference for him so his is causing needless damage by giving this information to potential employers.

Yes this.

[Diverseduvet]

Can he try agencies?

[Twistiesandshout]

Also - I'm so sorry you have been put this situation Bumple

[TheUndoingProject]

Can he ask to be allowed to resign? Can he negotiate a reference that merely confirms the dates of his employment? Being re-employed is very unlikely, but he can still improve his position considerably in terms of gaining future employment by negotiating carefully during the appeal process. Proper representation during the appeal process would be really helpful.

The (US) website Ask A Manager often has good advice on how to manage these sort of tricky conversations with potential employers.

[WhereverIGoddamnLike]

Will the GM result in an criminal proceedings against him? Or are we just dealing with the issue if reference and explaining why he left the job etc?

[MegBusset]

Agree he absolutely should not be mentioning it to prospective employers. It is likely that he will be able to agree a neutral reference with the previous employer. Some organisations only give these as a matter of course (I have one former employer which will literally only give your start and end dates and job title as a reference, for anyone who leaves).

[cherrypie790]

As a small business owner myself, it's quite hard to be able to dismiss someone for gross misconduct and you need to be on very solid ground to do so.

I'll be careful how I say this - if he genuinely thinks that he has been treated unfairly, then an employment solicitor is the best way forward - like a PP said, check your home insurance to see if you have cover.

I'm really sorry that you're in this situation.

[BumpleLeeds]

Thanks for the advice everyone. He has the backing of his union, who said they were shocked at the original decision. He's been telling agencies and potential employers because he'd read online that you have to be honest in case it comes out at reference stage. But I think he's not getting a fair chance - as soon as he mentions what's happened to possible employers, things go silent.

Perhaps trying to negotiate a neutral reference is the best way forward here.

[Dazedandconfused10]

We never mention a person's reason for leaving in a reference, job title and employment dates only - does he know they will?

[BumpleLeeds]

@WhereverIGoddamnLike

Will the GM result in an criminal proceedings against him? Or are we just dealing with the issue if reference and explaining why he left the job etc?

No criminal proceedings. Just reference and explanation going forward.

[EBearhug]

There's a difference between lieing if they ask him a question about why he's leaving, and volunteering the information unasked. He shouldn't volunteer it if he isn't asked about it.

Good luck with the union, etc. Mine was brilliant when I had some HR issues, so I hope his is as good.

[JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn]

Definitely don't mention anything at interview. References never include anything except start and end dates.

Your DH needs to negotiate resignation and a settlement agreement, which includes a non-disclosure clause. Then he can interview without worrying.

I hope the union helps sort this out for him.

[Iwillneverbesatisfied]

OP I left with an exit package after years of discrimination and tribunal proceedings. I am telling prospective employers that I was made redundant due to Covid 19. No one questions that. Your DH could try that line? I did negotiate a neutral reference though, get his union to negotiate that for him.

[ivfbeenbusy]

So what did he do?

Clearly If the companies he is interviewing for are going silent when they hear what he "did" then it must have been pretty serious and they also believe it was GM??

Are you sure he isn't downplaying/minimising what he did??

[KihoBebiluPute]

For job hunting he should only be looking for jobs which will never give him the opportunity to do whatever it is he did. So yes he may never be trusted with finances again (for example) but if he retrains as a tree surgeon or plumber or lorry driver then he never needs to be trusted with finances.

No recruiter is ever going to choose someone experienced but untrustworthy over someone with less experience but no history of untrustworthy behaviour.

Getting a neutral reference negotiated will be great for getting a job but if he really is guilty of what he is accused of and gets a job where this information is relevant he could still lose his job again if the new employer finds out. So he needs to look for jobs where they won't care.

If he is not guilty then he needs to focus on clearing his name and can apply for jobs in the field he is experienced in armed with a narrative that supports his trustworthiness.

Confessing that this has happened yet still hoping to be selected as a new recruit in the same field of work is never going to succeed.

[lyinginthegutterstaringatstars]

It's hard to give an opinion as no idea what happened but is it possible he has downplayed his involvement? If he has been stealing , falsifying documents , using the premises for personal use etc that's quite serious .

[JudgeJudee]

his line manager has said that they think the HR department have been extremely hard on him

I’ve been involved in hundreds of disciplinaries and investigations over the years (as company HR, as an independent consultant, and as a court adjudicator) and can tell you that 9 times out of 10, line manager trot out that line because it’s easier to pass the buck than to have a difficult conversation.

Same with things like bonuses- “if it was up to me you’d have had way more but HR/Senior Management have my hands tied”.

If it’s a reputable company and he’s been sacked for gross misconduct, and given fair process, chances are his line manager has been spoken to as part of the investigation process.

[custardbear]

Personally I'd temp for a while, get reference from latest job then ie the temp job

As foe sorting the issue, do what others have said above, see if unions can support with reference negotiations - sorry this is happening to you

[HopeAndDriftWood]

References never include anything except start and end dates

Some don’t, but they can. And I’m not sure there’s any grounds to be asking for a settlement agreement yet - it seems OPs DH did the thing, and is only appealing that the punishment seems harsh. There’s no incentive for the employer to agree to non-disclosure or a plain reference, unless they’ve not followed procedure.

Although it probably would have been worth seeing what did come back on a reference. Anything said has to be true (but it’s a common misconception that it has to be good), and there’s a chance they will just opt for his dates of employment and role. But there’s also a chance that the new employer will push for more than that; and most of the standard “reference” forms these days seem to include questions on disciplinary proceedings. The employer can refuse to answer; but that sort of sends a message by itself...

Is he in a field where he could pick up some temp work for a while, and a newer reference?

[JudgeJudee]

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn

Definitely don't mention anything at interview. References never include anything except start and end dates.

Your DH needs to negotiate resignation and a settlement agreement, which includes a non-disclosure clause. Then he can interview without worrying.

I hope the union helps sort this out for him.

Do you think every company is issued one reference template? Of course references can include all types of information, depending on who is providing them.

Also, a settlement agreement? There’s nothing to go on here to suggest the OP’s boyfriend has been subject to anything but a fair and standard process. On what grounds do you think he’d have a claim for a settlement?

[JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn]

You're right, there isn't enough information provided to suggest a settlement agreement could be obtained. But as OP stated that union weren't convinced the treatment her DH received was fair, this could lead the way to a settlement agreement.

The best advice would be to get professional legal guidance and take it from there.

Many companies do have a templated response for references - again, you're right that more may be required for a higher level role. As OP has provided little information I took the 'lowest common denominator' route to offer reassurance. In hindsight whilst my intentions were good, the advice may not be appropriate.

OP I hope this gets sorted. If you DH has done something that justifies dismissal for GM it is going to be a difficult time. Let's hope it isn't as bad as it seems and that union can help smooth this out for an easier exit from the company.