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I am about to ID as a man

(1000 Posts)
YesItsADebate Fri 23-Feb-18 08:27:09

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous blush

Wish me luck!

brainache78 Fri 23-Feb-18 20:04:43

teddy,
You say you understand, but you are still slightly missing the point, I think.

This is about men too. Women complaining about their spaces being invaded are being silenced and ignored, so to be heard we need men to understand the implications for them too - and there are some!

Men are listened to, sadly, more than women are. Until they are directly affected many will not be interesting in the issue at all - and until they are we are pissing in the wind (with our she-pees)

runningoutofjuice Fri 23-Feb-18 20:10:06

Just joining op's fan club so I can see future updates❤️

nemno Fri 23-Feb-18 20:15:35

Is one allowed to Self id as male on alternative days Of course you can SofieMonde

www.fnlondon.com/articles/mistranslated-i-split-my-time-as-pippa-and-philip-20171002

TheBadgersMadeMeDoIt Fri 23-Feb-18 20:27:48

* i just dont agree with the actual execution affecting innocent people*

If we don't shine a light on the practical issues behind self-ID now, a great many more innocent people will be affected when it becomes law...and with much worse consequences than having to look at a few pairs of saggy tits in the men's room.

mirialis Fri 23-Feb-18 20:31:31

OFGS Teddy.

This is clearly a move to temporarily invade men's space in order to prevent permanent invasion of men's and women's spaces by any old person who could decide they are Dave on day and Davina the next and trample all over the need for people of both sexes to have single sex facilities with the introduction of self ID.

We are also asking for unisex spaces so that there is a place for everyone, including a good number of people - male and female - who are happy with mixed sex facilities but will not see sex-segregated spaces removed for the many, many people who really aren't happy with unisex spaces and actually need single sex ones.

thebewilderness Fri 23-Feb-18 20:32:30

A police officer has recently declared themselves gender fluid so they can bring their fetish to work.

HermioneWeasley Fri 23-Feb-18 20:36:09

Well done OP!

PencilsInSpace Fri 23-Feb-18 20:36:26

So your solution to a potential problem you may face in the future is to do the exact same to men that are more than likely nothing to do with your issue?

Well yeah, until men are affected by this NOT A POTENTIAL problem nothing will change. No fucks are given about what women think.

but itll still potentially embarrass innocent people.

Yes it will. But they won't feel physically threatened like women do when we are expected to accept male people into single sex spaces where we are at our most vulnerable. And we are also innocent people and also embarrassed on top of feeling physically threatened.

Men have been able to complacently go about their business assuming this is nothing to do with them because transmen, socialised as female and on average smaller and much weaker than men, are not a threat to them and have made no demands. Men (the lefty dudebro sorts) have still enjoyed the opportunity to castigate us for our transphobia for not unquestioningly welcoming transwomen into our spaces. If you want to have a pop at people for causing others grief over things which are nothing to do with them then have a look at the behaviour of these lefty dudebro misogynists who have no dog in this race.

OP's action was perfect. What has she done exactly? Forced a leisure company to examine the guidance they endorse. Any 'genuine' transman could do exactly the same. The truth is the guidance is fucking insane and all that's required to bring this into the light of day is to get organisations to actually read and think about what they are endorsing.

mirialis Fri 23-Feb-18 20:45:37

I have been reading these threads for a while and felt very uncomfortable with the idea of invading gay men's space to make the point (and would really love to got nominated and get into a Westminster type gentleman's club instead but needs must) but it was only when the OP did this that I suddenly though, hang on, I've actually been in this position of having to be in a "unisex" - predominantly male - facility and no, actually, the men were not under any threat from me and my friend because they were more numerous and an awful lot stronger than us but yes they felt uncomfortable with having no choice but to be standing right next them when they wanted to take a piss despite the fact we were quite clearly not there to make a point or stir up trouble and were actively not looking in their direction or making a fuss.

Mxyzptlk Fri 23-Feb-18 20:46:27

the current drive is for the process to begin and end with that self-ID (except for children, who should be supported/encouraged to ID as transgender and take hormones that render them sterile)

Here's a thing -
If a young woman requests sterilisation because she never wants to have children, she will be told "No. You might change your mind."
If a young girl (or boy) says they want to be the opposite gender, then hormone treatment which is likely to render them sterile will be immediately provided.
What about possible changes of mind then??

BMacklin Fri 23-Feb-18 20:55:15

Just quickly logged on to add my support. Absolutely amazing.

YesItsADebate Fri 23-Feb-18 21:01:00

T-shirts?

Globetrotter100 Fri 23-Feb-18 21:04:26

Love those t shirts OP grin

misscockerspaniel Fri 23-Feb-18 21:05:16

Wow. I salute you YesItsADebate

failingatlife Fri 23-Feb-18 21:07:17

Love the t-shirt OP. Well done you are an inspiration grin

Mumsnut Fri 23-Feb-18 21:14:20

How about

kNOb DEBATE

bookgirl1982 Fri 23-Feb-18 21:15:38

The purple circle needs a pointy up arrow!

Mxyzptlk Fri 23-Feb-18 21:21:41

Obviously Swim England has already fallen down the rabbit hole - my concern would be if they take it too seriously and allow it,

And then the (other) men at the swimming pool would have to decide how they felt about it.

BrainlessDailyMail Fri 23-Feb-18 21:34:52

About once a yr DH asks me about a MN thread... this one will hit headlines for sure.

ChoccyJules Fri 23-Feb-18 22:11:04

Love the T shirts grin

UpstartCrow Fri 23-Feb-18 22:27:27

YesItsADebate OMFG YES!

QuentinSummers Fri 23-Feb-18 22:34:49

People thinking about how to get into men's clubs that require nomination:
1) identify 2 sympathetic male friends/family
2) get them to join
3) I'D as a man
4) get your friends to nominate you
wink
We don't have any near here sadly

TheDogHasEatenIt Fri 23-Feb-18 22:36:10

Just popping on to add my support too, op. I'd wear the tshirt and 'invade' a man-only space to make the point. Obviously i'd only do it in a group with other 'men for the day', for reasons of safety...which kind of makes the underlying point, doesn't it?

waterlego Fri 23-Feb-18 22:38:28

Exactly Mx If they do allow the OP to self-ID as male and use the facilities accordingly, that is likely to cause some complaints from other service users. Some of the men will feel uncomfortable, as might parents whose sons are using the facilities. I would be pretty annoyed if my 9 year-old DS told me he’d seen a naked woman in the men’s showers!

OP, I just want to join the chorus of admiration for what you’re doing. You’re badass. Thank you.

boatyardblues Fri 23-Feb-18 22:50:02

Interested to hear how this shakes down. Well played sir!

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