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It was five years ago yesterday that the world's most famous feminist died

(34 Posts)
dittany Sat 10-Apr-10 17:52:51

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ohnoanotherMRA Tue 12-Mar-13 20:20:13

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TheNebulousBoojum Tue 12-Mar-13 07:00:30

No, this is an old thread, she died in 2005.

tintin1969 Tue 12-Mar-13 06:51:33

Is it 5 years since she passed away already?

dicsuccionc Sun 10-Mar-13 19:37:49

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Xenia Sat 17-Apr-10 15:07:45

On age - above - There is nothing wrong with ageing. People shouldn't just define themselves by their looks. If you've made your principal currency how you look and that fades of course you'll be put out. But if you don't then it's much easier. I would say my looks are only 5% of how I feel about myself and as they change as inevitably they will that won't be particularly significant for me.

dignified Sat 17-Apr-10 14:26:12

Still feel distressed at reading some of those articles for some reason. Has made me think . In the past ive had a partner who would sulk if i didnt want sex, or would whine if i had limits and i know im not alone in this. Ive also encountered unnecessary intimate examinations and been told " not to make a fuss , its just something women have to put up with ".
My arse.

Clearly the idea has been that i am simply a woman and must allow men access to my body, whether i want to or not.
Im actually still really angry after reading those articles the other day , is probably because its hit a nerve.

KinderellaTristabelle Fri 16-Apr-10 17:37:53

Thats a very good point smallwhitecat about sexual repression. I hadn't thought of that before, but it is true.

I too am sick of the 'all men are into it'. They're not all brainwashed into believing that.

I read once that porn gives men power but takes away their agency (it was Catherine MacKinnon, I'm pretty sure). I think that's true, it gives them power over women, but reduces their freedom and their range of choices in reality.

smallwhitecat Fri 16-Apr-10 15:48:31

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KinderellaTristabelle Fri 16-Apr-10 10:29:29

Sorry, weird and acceptable.

I know what you mean dignified. (If you're referring to the OP. Or was it something in my post?)

It is frightening and horrible. The way I see it at least I'm not blind to it now. I'm more comfortable in one important way now that I understand it logically as well as emotionally.

It is awful though. It's bone chilling when I think about the extent of the harm to individual women and also to women generally (and I know I probably don't realise just how bad the damage actually is as I grew up in this culture [brainwashed emoticon]). sad

Its depressing how widely available and socially acceptable porn is given the damage it causes both to individuals and to society as a whole.

dignified Fri 16-Apr-10 00:56:41

I feel quite distressed and pissed off reading that.

KinderellaTristabelle Thu 15-Apr-10 15:21:49

I am loving this thread. Its great be reminded I'm not the only one thinks like this. Its liberating.

smallwhite cat, Magaly and dittany, I couldn't agree more.

Up until about a couple of years ago I actually did think I was wierd for being uncomfortable with porn. It has made a massive difference to realise that my discomfort was in fact logical. (I didn't understand it as I had no objection to nudity or anything explicit at all but did not like porn.confused)

I couldn't articulate why until I happened across some feminist literature by Catherine MacKinnon (who, of course, worked with Andrea Dworkin) and was in shock for weeks while everything fell into place. It truly allowed me to see the patriarchy in a totally different way.

I had been a feminist before in the sense that I wanted equal opportunities for women, no discrimination etc. but never really saw how the whole structure and background created and maintained the problems women face. Until those stereotypical portrayals of women cease, we will never be equal. Its like racist portrayals of a particular group being accaptable in everyday life. You can make discrimination against that group illegal, but they will never experience equality while you allow their stereotype to go unchallenged. Especially when its as pervasive, as the sexual objectification of women is in our culture.

smallwhitecat Wed 14-Apr-10 19:21:55

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sungirltan Wed 14-Apr-10 19:17:31

its the 'oh but lots of women out there love (insert sex acts which no women i know are in any way gagging for) - you're just a prude' that makes me blame porn for everything about sex/men that i have issues with.

scottishmummy Wed 14-Apr-10 19:11:54

of course i know dworkin.hugely influential.didnt know she was dead

dittany Wed 14-Apr-10 19:07:57

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sungirltan Wed 14-Apr-10 19:03:26

great post. i find porn offensive for many complicated reasons but i find the above v aff

thanks for that

smallwhitecat Wed 14-Apr-10 19:00:38

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dittany Wed 14-Apr-10 18:53:40

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Magaly Wed 14-Apr-10 18:46:53

Yes smallWC, and the fact that some men (who seem otherwise intelligent) can with a straight face defend prostitution on the 'grounds' that some prostitutes are happy/enjoy it are empowered etc (blah blah blah) shows the insidious damage that porn has on society, to the detriment of women.

Belle du jour is a very palatable tale for men. Much more palatable than the reality; ie that most prostitutes arrive in a crate from poverty in Belarus (eg). Because of porn, some men find it easy to delude themselves that a 17 year old 600 miles from home would prefer to be a hooker than an ordinary administrator/caterer/hairdresser. Porn feeds this (imo) ludicrous and offensive delusion which I've come right up against on an other forum.

smallwhitecat Wed 14-Apr-10 18:40:22

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Magaly Wed 14-Apr-10 18:36:34

Good one small whitecat. That's up my sleeve now (ready for the next on line argument I have with twits and eejits who buy into the notions such as happy hooker and so on)

msrisotto Wed 14-Apr-10 18:35:22

I know that a lot of porn treats/portrays women badly but not all porn, do we have to write it all off as awful?

It portrays men in a pretty unrealistic way too.

smallwhitecat Wed 14-Apr-10 18:29:51

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Magaly Wed 14-Apr-10 18:23:03

It's all true. I agree with it all.

I hate the fact that the worst thing you can be labelled nowadays is a 'prude'. Oh you don't approve of pornography? You uptight frigid anal miserable old prude.....

Susie Orbach said something in an interview I happened to catch. It really struck a chord for me in the run up to my 40th birthday. She said "ageing is not shameful".

Simple and not that punchy perhaps. But it just hit me between the two eyes at exactly the right moment. How right she is! AGeing is NOT shameful!! I have no OBLIGATION to be young (or to be fuckable or malleable or anything else) I have been young. So from now on I will not apologise for being the age I am. I won't shave a few years off my age to collude with some notion that younger women are more valuable, or that I would be more valuable if I were younger.

I won't simper and say ooooh thank you when a man tells me I don't look forty, as though there were no bigger compliment.

tiredlady Wed 14-Apr-10 18:19:25

thanks for posting that dittany.

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