active feminism -- what does it mean?

[probonbon]

Have just been reading, though not really contributing to, a very absorbing thread about the meaning of feminism. There is a great deal of intelligent analysis, quite a lot of it entirely beyond me

It's so important to know exactly where we stand and I was interested in how this translates into real life activities to help women who are suffering the effects of patriarchy. Do you write to MPs or visit refuges or support local women's aid groups? How does it work? How is it possible to bring the theory into how we interract with the real world? How do you manage it?

[phokoje]

when i was in a position to do so, i instituted a women only hire policy in a completely male dominated industry (construction). the company was up for it because of course, the women were being paid less (not a battle i could fight). it worked really well as there were so many women who were looking to do something in the arena other than admin or support roles, and it gave them an oppertunity to move over to positions that then offered them better training oppertunities etc etc.

other companies where i have had hiring responsibility but not the authority to institute an actual hiring policy, i have actively made an effort to recruit women.

[probonbon]

Wow -- that's fantastic. But what does one do if not in that kind of position to be so proactive.

What about campaigning? Are there active campaigns going on at the moment?

[probonbon]

Ok -- what, is this taboo or something?

So what do you all actually do to help women?

[phokoje]

didnt want you to go unanswered probonbon! i have to say that in my day to day life, i dont give my time to any sort of campaigning or actively advance feminism. as such. i suspect no one likes to admit they dont actually DO anything to make womens lot in life better.

(lol, and watch, i will post this up and at lest 100 others will come on and point out htat actually, they DO!)

[blackcurrants]

My feminism is pretty infused in other choices I make about social justice. My choices of charity and my choices of reading matter, the people I'm friends with, the small battles at work, which businesses I choose to support - this stuff is part of living a feminist life for me.

I live in the USA so a lot of my activism is involved in protecting women's right to abortion care, which is constantly threatened and eroded here. Because of being pg and tired, I haven't been on a march for quite some time (though I read about Million Women Rise with some envy/nostalgia/homesickness, and had mates who were there). Over here, I used to go to a reading group at Bluestockings,which is a great bookshop, and meetings of "Paradigm Shift" which is a feminist group in the city. But again, this is rather petered out due to being pg and tiiiired, as well as moving an hour out of NYC. So I suppose I'm an armchair activist for now!

Activism/groups I support in the UK (as in, with meagre financial support) are Object and the Fawcett Society.

At the moment, my feminist activism/consciousness is cued into educating myself about my birth options in this place, (Has anyone seen the Business of Being Born? SCARY STUFF!) and lining up support for breastfeeding, etc. I'm actually in a job which does not approve of having children - (as in, they think you're a slacker who ought to just pick another profession if you dare to have a life outside of work). So I had to time how I told my boss rather carefully, in order to ensure my application for next year's funding/work had been processed before I explained I was pg. That kind of thing opened my eyes to the achievements of the 2nd wavers, I can tell you! As it is, I get 4-6 weeks time off (unpaid! Nice!) before I'm back at work. So I think a lot of my 'armchair activism' involves telling other women that actually, in the UK, you can get 6 months' paid leave and guess what? The nation/economy/family system doesn't crumble.

HAH! Time I moved back to the UK, I swear. . .

[OrmRenewed]

Well I go running !

[probonbon]

phokoje that is very nice of you, you are my feminist of the day

[phokoje]

[ImSoNotTelling]

this is a good question , I often wonder about this.

I work for an organisation which supports women. It's a v small place so I won't say where or to do what

I always throw a link to this charity around when i can

I challenge sexist notions when people I know spout them at me. Or when women say they are not feminists I challenge them why not.

Um

That's it

[probonbon]

Yay Isn't! nice one

I think we should have a feminist good turn of the day

I am new to "action" myself hence my annoying interest

i am poo bore

manual scavenging and female empowerment in India

Blackcurrants you've done the marching and the shouting and other support too, what a lot esp when feeling urgh with pregnancy

ok who else?

[probonbon]

Isn't I looked at your charity link, a very good cause, I've read threads about this. It's good to raise awareness of such difficult and sensitive issues and make women able to talk about them and fight for better treatment.

[ImSoNotTelling]

I would like to go on a march one day as well.

Reclaim the night is one that has always resonated with me.

probonbon I have looked at your manual scavenging thread. i didn;t post as I couldn't think of a lot to say really, but it is on my radar for when DH and I do one of our sporadic charity giving efforts.

[Takver]

Not much to do with feminism. Crap, I know, but atm I feel that the stuff that I do do (mostly climate change related) is the most urgent for me personally. It helps for me that the people I am working with are very aware of gender (& other) issues.

Its hard to know what to do first, really, I find - is climate change (big, can you actually make a real difference?) more or less urgent than the badger cull (seems trivial on one level, but the more I think about it the more extreme it seems to try to eliminate a whole species from the country), or an immediate threat to spray herbicide on a nearby SSSI (which will also affect a number of my neighbours' water supply) . . . .

[blackcurrants]

pronobon - as I said, I do very little now. It's a lot to do with location: marching is easier if you don't have to take time off to get to/from the event, etc. Marching is great, it feels very powerful and you start believing in sisterhood and that you're not alone, etc etc. In some ways, marching is the easier part (though it would be waddling now!).

I think we're rather mistaken if we say to everyone who calls themselves a feminist "Well, what do you DOOOOO about it?" because it starts to look like we're checking ID cards at the door. For me, a lot of my feminist activism is challenging people's sexism, jokily, politely, or downright angrily, in a day-to-day setting. I do give small amounts of cash to groups that do more marching and shouting, and groups that do lobbying (the fawcett soc is dead good) but I don't think that's what makes me a feminist so much as my beliefs.

I know it's no good if you don't act on your beliefs, but most of my important activism is day to day. Heck, I care about animal welfare but when asked "Well, what do you DOOO to help animals" I can only say: I adopted a rescue dog, I tell people about puppy mills, I know where the meat I eat comes from, and I occasionally give cash to the humane society. There's only so much I can do, but the fact that I have limited time and resources doesn't mean I'm not committed to animal welfare. We have to be careful that demanding proof of 'activism' isn't basically an ideological purity-test.* And - this is key - space to TALK about things, space to challenge predominate ideas, space to test out ideas - this stuff is really important stuff. Telling people they 'shouldn't be discussing WhateverTheorist or their personal circumstances because INSTEAD they should focus on the people who are dying/starving/suffering in another place' has been a successful anti-feminist silencing tactic in the past. I'm not saying you're doing this - I know you're not - but I am explaining why some people might be wary of being asked to prove themselves, if that makes any sense.

(*I probably DO have an ideological purity-test, actually, but it's closer to: Do you think women are people? Do you trust women to make up their own minds about what to do with their bodies and lives? Do you think sexism is ingrained and invisible? Right, you're probably the same kind of feminist as me, then.)

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Interesting question. I agree with blackcurrants (in fact I think blackcurrants are is wonderful - where have you suddenly appeared from?) in that feminism is a belief really, as well as a movement. You wouldn't ask a socialist "well what do you do about it? Nothing? Well you're not a socialist then." But in fact I don't know any feminists who would be like that with anybody. Actually, I have found that everyone is really welcoming when they meet another self-declared feminist, it's just such a relief and a break to be hanging out with people who may not agree with you on every specific, but at least consider inequality a pressing and fundamental issue.

I have been on marches, to rallies and vigils etc. Reclaim the Night and Million Women Rise are both amazing. BUT i also know what it's like to live far away from where anything like that is going on, and not everyone has the time or the confidence to get their own local group together.

Regardless of location though, being an active feminist in my life means:

• paying attention to women's issues in the news/media, or indeed absence of female speakers etc, keeping up to date and trying to see through the "norm" e.g. staying angry about pathetically small % of female MPs, token women on question time, no female winning best director til this year.

• "coming out" as a feminist and answering people's questions however bloody stupid, thereby hopefully showing that feminism is not over, and that feminists are not weirdos but sometimes normal people with jobs and boyfriends and dogs and friends and stupid jokes.

-talking to people about women's issues as and when they come up. For example I ended up talking to some teenage girl on a train (was wearing feminism t-shirt on way back from event) about how rape is used as a weapon of war. These things don't really make the news but they are true and real and happening now, people should know and they want to.

• writing to my MP/ministers when an issue is urgent. For example I got lots of friends and colleagues to write letters when the Afghan govt first suggested the law that legalises rape within marriage, and starving your wife.

-oh yeah, and trying my damnedest to resist getting drawn into misogynistic bitching sessions with other people (ones about how someone "got herself pregnant" for example - and the evidence for that is what?) and not laughing at sexist/racist/rape-based jokes and explaining why not.

Hope that makes sense and doesn't sound too preachy. What scares me is how much courage it takes to do some of these tiny things in this country, even. It's scary to go against the grain. Then think of feminist activists working to improve women's lives in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, South Africa, Congo - these women are my heroes.

[blackcurrants]

Elephants - oh gosh yes, those women are my heroes, absolutely. There's a group pf women in Afghanistan that just blow my mind when I think of what danger they're in, and the odds they're up against, how they've had to live and what they're fighting for - honestly, just thinking about it right now makes me want to weep with admiration (pg, everything even slightly emotional makes me want to weep). I wish I could remember their name - gah, a quick google isn't providing it. I'll get back to you...

And yes, it IS hard to do it in one's day to day life, because it's hard to be the person making someone else even a teensy bit uncomfortable. I was brought up to be so very nice, and definitely brought up with the idea that a woman's job was to make men comfortable - that's conditioning that took a while to get over. But now I think: if you're being racist, sexist, or ablist - you don't deserve to feel comfortable.
Heh. There's another thread on this I think - how do you challenge obnoxious views/comments that you can't get away from. I'm going to wander over.

And as to where I came from - I've been lurking here for a bit but haven't had much to say - I'm pg and live in America and somehow being pg made me miss British women (perhaps the sense of humour and the feeling that it's ok to moan about pg symptoms a bit rather than have to smile and only talk sweetly about the precious angel baby) and I wanted to hear their thoughts on pregnancy and motherhood... homesickness, I suppose, led me to Mumsnet. Then general interest led me to this section. People are being really fascinating and I'm learning a LOT. Even when I'm not making sense (did I mention pg head? SO BAD TODAY!)

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

You make perfect sense, and I'm very glad you're here. Lots of your posts are just brilliant and so lucid that they make hard concepts seem easy to explain

One woman who I've read a bit about in Afghanistan is Malalai Joya - good Indy article here. She is truly amazing and outspoken in the face of threats, murder attempts, pressure from all sides.

"Joya looked out across the new Afghan parliament on her first day and thought: "In every corner is a killer, a puppet, a criminal, a drug lord, a fascist. This is not democracy. I am one of the very few people here who has been genuinely elected." She started her maiden speech by saying: "My condolences to the people of Afghanistan..."

Before she could continue, the warlords began to shout that they would rape and kill her. One warlord, Abdul Sayyaf, yelled a threat at her. Joya looked him straight in the eye and said: "We are not in [the area he rules by force] here, so control yourself."

I ask if she was frightened, and she shakes her head. "I am never frightened when I tell the truth.""

Hmm, will start a thread.

[probonbon]

I do agree with you both somewhat: however the train of thought that moved me onto this more active path was an analagy which if you don't mind I'll pass on.

If I were very vocally against poverty and deprivation, and I read a lot of books and wrote papers and attended courses on poverty and deprivation, and contributed to blogs about poverty and deprivation, and became very angry with people who would blame poverty and deprivation on the sufferers, and maintained a very high profile socially as anti-poverty and desperation, I think if I didn't actually do anything material to help poor and deprived people, I wouldn't be surprised if others thought I was an armchair opinionist and possibly a tiny bit flaky.

I am new though to this active side: previously I've just been a feminist in my daily life. But most people around me are feminists too and I worked in a very pro-women workplace so it's always been a given with me. So the active side is a new thing: and as others are so vocal I was hoping to find out what action can be taken to take things further.

[probonbon]

analogy

I withdraw flaky totally, but I still don't get it. Maybe people just don't want to talk about it. That would make sense.

[phokoje]

well i mean, i dont do stuff because i feel i need to 'prove' i am a feminist. in fact, it would never have occured to me to call myself that in the first place and have been doing so only in the context of this new group on MN.

what i mean is, up until like, a few weeks ago i hadnt thought to put a name to how i feel about women and our place in the world. or what i do about it. if that makes sense.

i just do what i can in whatever my sphere of influence is to make things better for women i encounter. i dont think i would go on a march or anything. loads of people in one place is my idea of hell actually we are all different.

i dont think pobonbon was asking 'what do you do' in a way that means 'prove you are a REAL feminist' i think she was asking becasue SHE wants to be more involved and is looking for ideas. pobonbon is that right?

[probonbon]

It is right phokoje: I will never ever be an academic feminist: The Women's Room was probably the formative text for me and will stay that way . I'm moving straight from taking it for granted (privileged position I realise) to wanting to act to help women who are totally screwed from the second they're born -- or even conceived, in some parts of the world. Academic feminism is important but in my newly enlightened state (ha ha bonk) it is beginning to seem like a First World indulgence.

[probonbon]

Phokoje I think although you might disagree with me on some things, in your description of yourself I recognise me quite a lot.

When I say take for granted, I don't mean quite that. I've always been grateful for the sacrifices made for my privilege. For example I'm trying to get a postal vote at the moment and it's quite a lot of tiresome faffing around and I think, shall I bother because I don't like any of the parties anyway -- but fuck, a woman threw herself under a horse for me to be able to do this. It's a frying pan to the head every time. And nowadays, high profile women going to court to fight age discrimination which is a feminist issue. They might be accused of trying their luck on big payouts but it's a massive, massive sacrifice and risk to stand up like that. Already their stands are making a difference.

[phokoje]

i get what you mean, i grew up in various 3rd world countries and thats probably why i never thought to sort of formalise my feminist stance. as such. i was just trying to make my way as best i could in environemts where women are absolutely second class citizens. even when they were of the 'privaledged' class.

[probonbon]

Did you really? How interesting. Whole other thread there about how it's informed your world view. Fascinating.

[SkaterGrrrrl]

These are the things I can think of that I do which I consider to be active feminism:

• Am paying to educate a girl through high school in Sub Saharan Africa
  
  
• Campaigned against a lap dancing club opening in our high street in the autumn (with other local residents including DH I petitioned, enlisted local politicians, spoke at the hearing of the licensing committee etc. We won )
  
  
• Challenge casual sexism among friends and colleagues
  
  
• On the Object mailing list and write to MPs in support of their excellent campaigns
  
  
• Am pregnant and have already made clear to relatives that a torrent of pink will not be welcome if its a girl
  
  
• Would like to go on the Reclaim the Night March organised by the London Feminist Network. Haven't made it one yet... Bad feminist!