Page 5 | IOC kick release of new trans guidelines into next year

(154 Posts)
CatsOperatingInGangs Mon 20-Sep-21 21:25:06

“We’re very aware that sex, of course, is not binary. It’s a continuum. The sectors overlap. And so the solutions are not essentially going to be binary.”

FFS

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/20/conflicting-opinions-iocs-transgender-guidelines-delayed-again-until-2022

OP’s posts: |
Ekofisk Tue 16-Nov-21 21:32:29

When is an advantage “proportionate”?

AnyOldPrion Tue 16-Nov-21 21:33:07

Women’s sports are going to fill up with mediocre men.

It’s one thing for women trying en masse to influence the politicians of a single country. It’s quite another to have any effect on big international groups.

Two steps forward…

AlecTrevelyan006 Tue 16-Nov-21 21:34:02

Bonkers

Signalbox Tue 16-Nov-21 21:35:30

Ekofisk

When is an advantage “proportionate”?

Does that even make any sense?

Ekofisk Tue 16-Nov-21 21:45:07

No degree of male advantage over a female is going to be proportionate, because of its source.

littlbrowndog Tue 16-Nov-21 22:00:01

Jeez how did we get to where a man says Twaw are women and he gets paid to say it and women will have to play in sport against men

And male sex offenders get put in prison with women

Why should women even try to reach their best in sport where a man or boy can come along and spoil it.

It’s fucking bonkers all of it fucking bonkers

Advertisement

BruceAndNosh Tue 16-Nov-21 22:11:50

So can all the East German women who were stripped of their medals in 70s and 80s for testosterone doping ask to have them reinstated?

BettyFilous Tue 16-Nov-21 22:22:10

BruceAndNosh

So can all the East German women who were stripped of their medals in 70s and 80s for testosterone doping ask to have them reinstated?

Sadly no. That is the wrong kind of cheating. Only the boys are allowed to cheat and get away with it.

ChateauMargaux Tue 16-Nov-21 22:37:30

Oh shit.. here we go again..

Of course we know sex is a spectrum.... FFS

I really really really hope that this becomes the joke of the very near future and that everyone who ever said it, has it plastered across their foreheads for people to point and laugh at.

OperationDessertStorm Tue 16-Nov-21 23:50:37

Signalbox

So if sporting bodies decide to go with inclusion TW will no longer have to reduce testosterone at all? Or am I reading it wrong?

Fuck.

Plus what does this mean for NB and other ‘identities’? If you can chose whichever you feel more comfortable in?

Fukuraptor Wed 17-Nov-21 01:11:03

I think there's room there for the peer reviewed science to let sanity back in eventually, assuming researchers are allowed to study the topic. But the burden of proof should be on those wishing to admit males into the female category not those wishing to exclude them because of sexual dimorphism.

We need a female Olympics if this shit continues. It doesn't matter if it is a proportionally small number of men prepared to cheat, you only need three worldwide to exclude females from the podium in an event.

And we know there is huge pressure on countries and athletes to exploit any advantage to get medals.

Recentish BBC documentary on The Unfair Games looked at problems with the Paralympic categories that allowed unfair competition and how ruthlessly it is exploited because of intense competition.

DSD mean that there are already issues within the Olympics, but allowing self identifying into the female category completely irradicates it.

CheeseMmmm Wed 17-Nov-21 03:08:05

What an utter cop out.

They've passed the whole issue back to individual sports to work out for themselves.

That's pretty rubbish. Expensive complicated fraught. And for Olympics presumably all the bodies for a sport around the world will need to agree criteria? At least for Olympics. If not in general. How the fuck is that supposed to happen. I'd say it sounds impossible? I mean people from n Korea compete.. Loads of countries hate each other and will be looking to gain / prevent advantage. Looking to get the rules so their person just passes but hopefully excludes others.. that sort of thing.

Impossible.

Plus they say any exclusion has to have peer reviewed science. Sounds great but.. whose going to do all this study? For every event in every sport? And of course you can get that to say what you want eg tobacco USA risks. They bought scientists off suppressed dangers for years.

They have walked away from it and the different and v thorny issues re those with DSDs as well. Just dumped the whole thing and run.

Well this is going to be one hell of a mess.

WombOfOnesOwn Wed 17-Nov-21 04:31:24

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/16/trans-women-should-not-have-to-reduce-testosterone-say-new-ioc-guidelines

Well this should make 2022 a real banner year for setting women's world records, since they now will require some kind of affirmative evidence not just that women are disadvantaged but "disproportionately disadvantaged" (disproportionate to what, I wonder?) in order to have an actual female-only sport.

KohlaParasaurus Wed 17-Nov-21 05:17:36

I suppose hoping for a total ban on males in women's sport was always too optimistic. Horrified and hoping for a huge backlash.

JustcameoutGC Wed 17-Nov-21 06:51:09

I just read this. I am gob smacked. There goes elite womens sports.

This is going to have to play out before it is stopped.

Jesus, who the fuck did they consult with.

TeamRex Wed 17-Nov-21 07:09:02

Just checked, the IOC do have anti-doping rules still. They care about people taking drugs to improve performance.

Men saying they are women competing the women's events, great! Nothing to see here!

How stupid do they think we are?

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/world-anti-doping-program/ioc-anti-doping-rules-games-of-the-xxxii-olympiad-tokyo-2020-as

ChateauMargaux Wed 17-Nov-21 07:23:31

Is there a link to the new rules? The guardian article link claims that trans women were previously required to reduce their testosterone levels ... that is not true. The CAS ruling clearly set out the case for discrimination on the ground of sex and made exception for athletes who were legally female since birth due to 46XY DSD.

Though typing all that.. I realise that is not the rule that allowed Hubbard to compete.. links to IOC documents welcome.

This is so so depressing.

OvaHere Wed 17-Nov-21 07:28:42

JustcameoutGC

I just read this. I am gob smacked. There goes elite womens sports.

This is going to have to play out before it is stopped.

Jesus, who the fuck did they consult with.

I'm not sure they needed to consult with anyone to have reached this conclusion. Pretending that men have no sporting advantage over women is just pulling it out of your arse insanity.

Reallocationcake Wed 17-Nov-21 08:05:13

This is so depressing, all I can hope is this is an own goal and it will peak many people. Obviously the issue with that is women athletes are in for some shocking injustices and potentially injury in contact sport.

BruceAndNosh Wed 17-Nov-21 08:07:14

TeamRex

Just checked, the IOC do have anti-doping rules still. They care about people taking drugs to improve performance.

Men saying they are women competing the women's events, great! Nothing to see here!

How stupid do they think we are?

www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/world-anti-doping-program/ioc-anti-doping-rules-games-of-the-xxxii-olympiad-tokyo-2020-as

The IOC will ban athletes for taking Lemsip for a cold.
But it's going to be OK to be born, raised, and trained as male until age 20, then compete against female athletes with the males requiring no adjustment to their natural testosterone levels?
Fuck that for a game of soldiers

Ekofisk Wed 17-Nov-21 08:09:14

The 2015 IOC trans policy required transwomen to lower testosterone to below 10 nm/l for at least 12 months prior to competition.

stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

It is World Athletics (formerly IAAF) that has the 46XY policy - athletes competing internationally at particular distances are bound by this policy with the lower 5 nmol/l limit.

Ekofisk Wed 17-Nov-21 08:12:09

New IOC policy is here:

stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/News/2021/11/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf?_ga=2.221508369.805542045.1637136580-1975557268.1637136580

Read it and weep.

FannyCann Wed 17-Nov-21 08:15:11

Twitter thread from Katherine Deves

https://twitter.com/katherine_deves/status/1460657915891617792?s=21

Naunet Wed 17-Nov-21 08:21:31

So could this also impact some men’s sports too? I mean, couldn’t we have a heavy weight boxer insist he’s a lightweight?

ChateauMargaux Wed 17-Nov-21 08:56:04

Thanks for the links Ekofish... and for the clarification that it was the IAAF ruling about 46XY DSD.

I am so sad that it has come to this. I know people who have resigned over this but then we are left with no one to argue the case within the IOC.

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in