Woke Blokes and the Abuse of Women

(11 Posts)
PaleGreenGhost Mon 20-Sep-21 11:09:34

This is such an interesting piece, thank you for posting.

I'm privileged enough not to have needed to read Lundy Bancroft's work. But the observation that it is their value system, more than anything else, that drives a man to be a misogynist abuser is really helpful. I have worked with young adults with SEN in the past and it was both interesting and sometimes highly alarming to see the family's values expressed so clearly by the younger person. Most often the father's values.

And I agree with PP that it is not just porn, it is also how we view the role of mothers and women in society in general that drives this. I really identify with that because the younger, more "woke" me had internalised misogyny in a similar way. Women, mothers, were a certain type of gratifying person. When I felt cognitive dissonance between my personal experiences and my perceived vision of womanhood, instead of coming to feminism I thought I was "not like other women". If I were a decade younger I'd have caught the non binary craze.

GreenUp Mon 20-Sep-21 03:34:56

Interesting article. But I disagree with the thesis that it is porn driving the misogyny as I don't think that prominent activists like Owen Jones, Harrop and Paisley are interested in porn that features women.

I imagine the misogyny happens at a more fundamental narcissistic level. These men think that "mum is there to provide for all my needs and I can't think of her as a human being in her own right with needs of her own". A self-centred mentality leads these men to believe that women don't exist as humans in our own right, only as providers, facilitators and affirmers.

Maybe the chaser types like fox killer have an added porn-driven dimension to their denigration of women. Who knows.

Slythermum Mon 20-Sep-21 01:34:33

"In real life they are ok guys."
In real life they "seem" to appear as ok guys. I should have written.

From my above - Not all men man -

"He will not only claim to be the victim of the woman he has abused but also victimised generally by society. This is all part of his re-writing of events and gaslighting. The next stage is when he casts himself as great or such a nice guy. A period of quiet will usually follow until the next time he explodes but he will be unable to let go of his target." - Mr Sensitive. As is the blocked White Knight guy.

And Green boy is ‘Mr Always Right’ - he's in the perfect political party for it too.

Slythermum Mon 20-Sep-21 01:27:16

I have three Woke Blokes who heavy breathe all over my FB posts. There is one I've ended up blocking and of the remaining two, one is a Green party member who has his revolting opinion about every woman's issue I post about "choking is great when it's consensual!" "Sex work is great!" "Karens are bad!" "JK Rowling is a Karen terf white billionaire"
The other one is "not all men" man.

In real life they are ok guys. Pretty respectful in person, decently behaved enough. When they get opinioning on the internet though...just awful whilst somehow garnering support from the women around them.

I think.... that they think they are commenting from a place of good intentions. I don't think for a second they are thinking about actual women's lives beyond the middle-class women who cheerlead them. Their politics are student politics rather than real-world observations. The Not all Men Man also has a chip on his shoulder of having been in some crappy relationships where he's come out worse off financially and emotionally so he's defending men rather than thinking about the difference between the men who hurt others and the men who don't.

Green guy is surrounded by performance art types - burlesque girls, and others who talk a lot about having a choice. Because they do have a choice of whether to strip or not, they do have a choice of who to sleep with. They don't have to live in the Leeds "managed zone" they can play with the odd fetish and it's all fun and games.

I suppose what I am thinking is that it's not all one type of woke bloke and there are these variances. The one I ended up blocking liked to think of himself as White Knight but suddenly was on every single post of mine being quite controlling and behaving like a boyfriend even though I had a new partner. I could feel the smothering through the ether.

LobsterNapkin Sun 19-Sep-21 23:40:41

It's an interesting article. I've certainly never seen any evidence that men like this belong more to one particular political group or religion or any other such group.

I do wonder if it's always misogyny as such that is the correct correlation. Some of these people, it seems to me, think of everyone as lesser, they do not seem to think of any other people as real in the way they themselves are. I've also seen instances where it seemed to have some sort of status element - people of a certain type, men and women, are worthy or respect, others not.

I do think that porn has a big role in shaping people's attitudes.

allmywhat Sun 19-Sep-21 23:21:57

Bancroft’s work is sometimes criticised for being too inclusive and easily applied to any man.

Really? I think anyone who raises this criticism needs to take a long hard look at himself/her Nigel.

I read all of it at a time period when my partner and I were arguing a lot and he was IMO being a bit of an arse, and I came away from it very clear that we were both being arsey stressheads and nobody was being controlling or abusive.

The woke blokes, on the other hand… Bancroft has them nailed. So does this article. I’m having to take it in small doses so I don’t get disheartened, but I’m glad she’s spelling it out about these men.

SweetGrapes Sun 19-Sep-21 22:55:26

Quite a read. Chilling but really good to see it written down.


notaclownfish Sun 19-Sep-21 20:02:48

The "Mr Sensitive" part especially. I know so many...

Anotheruser02 Sun 19-Sep-21 16:49:31

God that resonates, I found it quite chilling actually.

theThreeofWeevils Sun 19-Sep-21 15:59:36

Thanks for posting this, Stealth.

Stealhsquirrelnutkin Sun 19-Sep-21 13:22:41

Thought provoking article by Dr Em today.

"The crossover between ‘trans rights activists’, incels and men’s rights activists has been frequently pointed out by feminists, but it is time to take a look at the supporting troupe. The bullying blue ticks, the fresh-faced student misogynists, the older self-serving politicians. Two things unite them all, and it is not a desire for social justice or a committed belief that clothes are magical and change one’s sex. Forced teaming can only explain so much in the face of evidence, women’s concerns and the behaviour they exhibit.4 It is misogynistic values and pornography use driving this."

"Men who bully and abuse women have dehumanised them and cannot see them as equals".


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