'Vichy feminism'

[secular111]

I've seen this term being increasingly employed on SM. In August, glinner included the term in the title for a post;

A new low for Vichy Feminism

'Vichy Feminism' though has no definition. It's use perhaps gives away its meaning; Vichy Feminism might otherwise be known as 'Collaborator Feminism' where the self-identified feminist collaborates with the oppression of women and girls. Some individuals who profess to practice 'Intersectional Feminism' may also be regarded as collaborators.

That though is just my interpretation. As mentioned, there's no formal definition of 'Vichy Feminism'.

The 'Vichy' of course refers to the Vichy government established by Chief of State Marshal Philippe Pétain at the fall of France in WWII, leaving the Free French to fight for the Allies, whilst the Vichy government and its resources were dedicated to collaboration with the Nazi's. That collaboration included helping deport 75,721 Jewish refugees and French citizens to Nazi death camps. In 1942 the Nazi's took more direct control of the Vichy 'Free Zone', with Prime Minister Pierre Laval' government providing aid to them. Laval was executed at the end of the War.

There have been various efforts to apply terms to describe 'feminists' who collaborate in the oppression of women and girls, perhaps through their opposition to single-sex safe spaces, their promotion of efforts to erase the term 'woman', their adoption of anti-science perspectives, efforts to restrict or prevent free expression, attempts to associate non-compliant women with fascism or far-right interest. 'Handmaidens' - a term lifted from Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale (1985) is often used. I don't reckon it is accurate; the handmaids in Atwood's novel are unwilling participants in the regime Atwood envisioned. A better term might be 'Aunties' , in honour of the character Aunt Lydia, who is a Collaborator with the misogynistic & homophobic Gilead regime.

Another term regularly applied to collaborating/collaborators is 'Quisling' - a term garnered from Norwegian war-time leader Vidkun Quisling, who headed a domestic Nazi collaborationist regime during World War II. I've not seen the term used in concert with feminism - such as 'Quisling Feminism', but it might gain traction in-the-future.

As mentioned before, 'Vichy Feminism' is a term for those who identify as feminists but willingly assist in collaborating in the oppression of women and girls.

Examples of Vichy Feminism abound. In the UK alone, we could perhaps consider the Scottish First Minister, who has expressed the claim that she is 'feminist to her fingertips' to be a Vichy Feminist. The Conservative MP for Wolverhampton North and Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee, Maria Miller might also be identified as a Vichy Feminist.

Whether the term reaches mainstream usage is yet-to-be-seen.

[Fariha31]

yes, Vichy Feminism summs up 'modern' or 'intersectional' feminism perfectly.

[OvaHere]

I've seen it used more by the GC gay guys on twitter who refer to 'Vichy Gays'. I don't know if that's where it originated.

[JellySlice]

Vichy feminism - very accurate.

Quisling feminism would be even better, as quisling is a recognised adjective.

It would be very sad to lose the accurate use of intersectional to the TRAs and vichyists/quislings. Intersectional feminism accurately describes taking into account the various experiences of women, which influence their experiences as women. TRAs and Vs/Qs have hijacked this word to describe males' experiences influencing their experiences as 'women'.

[EishetChayil]

I like this terminology.

[Wrongsideofhistorymyarse]

Caitlin Moran described Katie Price as 'Vichy France with tits' in her book 'How to be a woman' in 2011.

[fuckoffImcounting]

OP. What an absolutely disgusting way this is to describe other women, shame on you.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

It’s rhetorically powerful but I don’t think it is helpful. It’s divisive and it’s just one step away from calling people Nazis which never promotes greater mutual understanding tbh.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

Ooh I do love discovering a new gendered insult. Especially one that specifically targets feminists.

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

I think you might be onto something as a way of explaining the behaviour of some women.
Women intend to save themselves when sacrificing some women this is true.

[secular111]

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

It’s rhetorically powerful but I don’t think it is helpful. It’s divisive and it’s just one step away from calling people Nazis which never promotes greater mutual understanding tbh.

Vichy or Quisling Feminist might not suffice, and you've a good point. No need to invoke Godwin's Law regularly!

The association is with 'collaborator', but 'Collaborator Feminist' doesn't sound right.

JellySlices comment that It would be very sad to lose the accurate use of intersectional to the TRAs and vichyists/quislings is very pertinent too. Intersectionality regularly gets a bad press because of its association with antisemitism, through its core intent to produce a hierarchy of more and less oppressed groups, which invariably leaves Jews at-the-bottom. I don't reckon antisemitism is an implicit part of intersectionality; more likely it is simply abused to promote antisemitism when the opportunity arises.

I reckon 'Vichy Feminist', 'Vichy Feminism' will catch on, and not because of this post. Looking through TRA/MRA/incel social media, it appears that labelling is a key obsession with gender critical women or just plain skeptics labelled 'bigots', 'fascists', 'far-right' 'scum', 'cunts', 'monsters' etc. I think 'Vichy Feminist' - shorthand for 'collaborator feminist' isn't a deliberately-loaded descriptor, and it, or something similar will gain widespread adoption.

[secular111]

Perhaps another example of 'Vichy Feminism' can be observed in a recent thread on the Twitter feed of Mandu Reid, the WEP's party leader;

Mandu Reid: My thoughts on self ID and the debate surrounding it

[EsmaCannonball]

I often think of some women as collaborators so I do like it as a term. I also really dislike the argument that women should never criticise other women, even if those other women would sell you out for a crumb of male approval.

I tend to think of the situation as being akin to Roman slavery. The Romans were outnumbered by their slaves so, in order to stop uprisings, they combined brutality with incentives to good behaviour. If you were a good slave you could be promoted, you could earn money, you could be granted freedom. Why take on the massive and dangerous task of overthrowing the system when you as an individual have a chance of lording it over the other slaves and even becoming free? Slaves competed against each other instead of uniting against the common enemy.

Millennia of male supremacy is overwhelming, so it's unsurprising that many women look at the shortness of life and decide to succeed on those terms under which men allow women to succeed. The problem is in this topsy-turvy, Orwellian climate we are now being told that this capitulation and conformity is empowering, whereas any resistance or protest is bigotry.

[MiladyBerserko]

I like it. And it amuses me as I was recently contemplating naming a new entity I am involved with the 'Maquis', which is think well describes the underground movement of grassroots women's groups that have been created in response TRAism.

[donquixotedelamancha]

It’s rhetorically powerful but I don’t think it is helpful. It’s divisive and it’s just one step away from calling people Nazis

This. Name calling weakens our argument.

If I need to distinguish the type of 'feminism' Genderist claim to represent then 'male centred feminism' is my preferred term but there is no need to call individuals by any pejorative.

(except perhaps the YouTuber Owen Jones, I'm not sure we can ever have enough mocking nicknames for him).

[NewlyGranny]

It makes the rest of us the Resistance and puts us heroically on the right side of history, so I can see the appeal. And you need to have a reasonable level of education to get it, so it also weeds out anyone who has to say, "Wot?" 🤔 It could fly.

[LigandBrigand]

It has use an as another analogy in a reasoned article for sure (and for those that have even heard of it) and I can see it’s appeal as shorthand for those who are interested, but I wouldn’t like to see it made into another new snappily titled tweetable hashtag that just plays into the hands of ignorant over-simplifying Twitter wankers with their TLDRs.

I agree it sounds like name calling, even if the intention is to draw attention to and describe the behaviour, so as a label it will do us no favours. We can still point out collusion and enabling behaviour without this new term becoming a thing to use against people.

Let’s not fix on just this one term, but keep creating more analogies to continue getting the message across.

[JellySlice]

@donquixotedelamancha

It’s rhetorically powerful but I don’t think it is helpful. It’s divisive and it’s just one step away from calling people Nazis

This. Name calling weakens our argument.

If I need to distinguish the type of 'feminism' Genderist claim to represent then 'male centred feminism' is my preferred term but there is no need to call individuals by any pejorative.

(except perhaps the YouTuber Owen Jones, I'm not sure we can ever have enough mocking nicknames for him).

While I like the Vichy/Quisling analogy, I also agree about the name-calling and labelling. Another example of TGLWGH.

Can we still describe women who self-ID as feminists, but centre men in their 'feminism', as quislings?

[MiladyBerserko]

Fuck 'They go low we go high'. They are fucking supporting children taking drugs that will sterilise them. How long are we supposed to play nice?

[KimikosNightmare]

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

Caitlin Moran described Katie Price as 'Vichy France with tits' in her book 'How to be a woman' in 2011.

Oh and I'll bet Moran was so pleased with herself. What a horrible person she is.

[Drably]

@secular111

I've seen this term being increasingly employed on SM. In August, glinner included the term in the title for a post;

A new low for Vichy Feminism

'Vichy Feminism' though has no definition. It's use perhaps gives away its meaning; Vichy Feminism might otherwise be known as 'Collaborator Feminism' where the self-identified feminist collaborates with the oppression of women and girls. Some individuals who profess to practice 'Intersectional Feminism' may also be regarded as collaborators.

That though is just my interpretation. As mentioned, there's no formal definition of 'Vichy Feminism'.

The 'Vichy' of course refers to the Vichy government established by Chief of State Marshal Philippe Pétain at the fall of France in WWII, leaving the Free French to fight for the Allies, whilst the Vichy government and its resources were dedicated to collaboration with the Nazi's. That collaboration included helping deport 75,721 Jewish refugees and French citizens to Nazi death camps. In 1942 the Nazi's took more direct control of the Vichy 'Free Zone', with Prime Minister Pierre Laval' government providing aid to them. Laval was executed at the end of the War.

There have been various efforts to apply terms to describe 'feminists' who collaborate in the oppression of women and girls, perhaps through their opposition to single-sex safe spaces, their promotion of efforts to erase the term 'woman', their adoption of anti-science perspectives, efforts to restrict or prevent free expression, attempts to associate non-compliant women with fascism or far-right interest. 'Handmaidens' - a term lifted from Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale (1985) is often used. I don't reckon it is accurate; the handmaids in Atwood's novel are unwilling participants in the regime Atwood envisioned. A better term might be 'Aunties' , in honour of the character Aunt Lydia, who is a Collaborator with the misogynistic & homophobic Gilead regime.

Another term regularly applied to collaborating/collaborators is 'Quisling' - a term garnered from Norwegian war-time leader Vidkun Quisling, who headed a domestic Nazi collaborationist regime during World War II. I've not seen the term used in concert with feminism - such as 'Quisling Feminism', but it might gain traction in-the-future.

As mentioned before, 'Vichy Feminism' is a term for those who identify as feminists but willingly assist in collaborating in the oppression of women and girls.

Examples of Vichy Feminism abound. In the UK alone, we could perhaps consider the Scottish First Minister, who has expressed the claim that she is 'feminist to her fingertips' to be a Vichy Feminist. The Conservative MP for Wolverhampton North and Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee, Maria Miller might also be identified as a Vichy Feminist.

Whether the term reaches mainstream usage is yet-to-be-seen.

Then "GC Feminism" should be renamed "Vicious Feminism".

[334bu]

Soyez le/la bienvenu(e) Drably.

[Thelnebriati]

The idea of women holding up the patriarchy isn't new, but its never been given a name. I'm not sure that Vichy feminism is it, because 'feminism' centres women and their needs.
If some women decide to break away from that principle and do something new they could do other women the courtesy of choosing a new name for themselves.

[KimikosNightmare]

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

It’s rhetorically powerful but I don’t think it is helpful. It’s divisive and it’s just one step away from calling people Nazis which never promotes greater mutual understanding tbh.

I agree. It's condescending and patronising and indicates a mind closed and bolted to the faintest possibility of not being in the always 100 % in the right.

I'm firmly of the view that terms such as Nazi, Fascist, Quisling, Vichyist should not be extrapolated for use for anything except the specific context of WWII.

We already have the dangerous idiots in Antifa appropriating "Fascist" to mean anything they disagree with. "Vichy Feminist" is no different.

[NiceGerbil]

No thanks.

This current trend of labelling everything, deciding who gets the label, and then using the term to denigrate them as a group.

It's counter productive, assumes if someone says X they must also be a b and c.

It's simplistic and quite frankly immature.

It reminds me of the terms white feminists, Karens, and a whole load more.

People are individuals and when they say something others disagree with, then the others should challenge them.

Ditto orgs, political statements etc.

Plus I'm no doubt thick. But Vichy when I read it, it's a brand of skincare products!

[NiceGerbil]

Surely a massive issue at the moment is-

Give a group you don't agree with a special name.
Bunch a load of people under that name.
Assume that all their views are awful.
Don't ever listen to anything they say.

No way do I want to get going with that approach.

Look at what the term terfs has resulted in.

Anyone can be labelled one.
That means they're evil.
Never listen to anything they say.
Try to make sure no one else does.

That's the opposite of what I want IE talking about this in a grown up and reasonable manner.