Jerk

[EastWestWhosBest]

No I’m not being rude. This is the name of a comedy series I heard being talked about in radio 4 today. The lead character is a young man with cerebral palsy.

The reason I’m mentioning it is because of a clip they played on the radio. It went something like this:

Student: this is Tim, he’s disabled
Tim: no, I’m not. I don’t identify as disabled. I identify as able bodied.
Student: oh. Oh my goodness. How dreadful of me to assume your ability identity. I must educate myself.

The two series are available on iPlayer.

[EastWestWhosBest]

Just bumping this.
I loved the play on identity politics and how he can’t identify his way out of his disability.

[MidCenturyClegs]

This might be better moved to a different board as here we discuss issues relating to feminism.

[EastWestWhosBest]

Can you not see the parallel there with gender identity?

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

I immediately thought of the gender-identity nonsense! Good on someone with a disability having the guts to laugh at life.

[MidCenturyClegs]

@EastWestWhosBest

Can you not see the parallel there with gender identity?

Yes of course, I just thought this might not be the right place to post it.
What was the name of the show?

[EastWestWhosBest]

What was the name of the show?

Jerk.

[OldTurtleNewShell]

Definitely a parallel with gender identity imo, and certainly worthy of a discussion. I suspect that kind of comment wouldn't have made it through to the broadcast if it had been about gender rather than disability, although I'm surprised it made it at all.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

@MidCenturyClegs

This might be better moved to a different board as here we discuss issues relating to feminism.

You are kidding, right?

[NiceGerbil]

I'm not really. Um. Comfy with this.

For years the wording on the sort of forms that ask, it's been common to ask, do you identify as having a disability.

There are a few reasons for this.

Definitions of disability are extremely variable. There is no one understanding of disabled/ not disabled, where the line is.

Different levels of disability will be relevant for different things.

Disability is a very personal thing, it's a highly charged word.

Many people who others would consider disabled do not see or refer to themselves that way.

Sometimes as a statement about people with disabilities not being the 'problem' but a world set up almost totally for the 'norm'. Loads of women understand this idea. We often don't fit either, as the 'norm' is average male.
When women find certain things don't fit, are hard to operate etc often the feeling is that it's them who are 'wrong'. No, it's the design.
EG Oh dear I'm too short to reach the handrail. No, the handrail has not been designed with a range of the end users in mind. That sort of thing.

Also if you have a disability it's psychologically a big deal to apply the word to yourself, especially if you young (probably?).

I didn't use the word about myself until maybe mid 30s even though others would have applied it from age 10 or so.

This is personal to me sorry for the long post!

No one ever imagined that a person who had no disability would identify into the group! And I doubt it happens much tbh.

[NiceGerbil]

'Student: this is Tim, he’s disabled
Tim: no, I’m not. I don’t identify as disabled. I identify as able bodied.
Student: oh. Oh my goodness. How dreadful of me to assume your ability identity. I must educate myself.'

Without context. This could have a number of different meanings etc.

[NiceGerbil]

I mean the first student and the second student sound to me like they're being really horrible.

And the person is making a point. Only to have the piss taken.

Without being familiar with it, no idea.

[Cazck]

Agree with Nicegerbil completely. An illness, disability or condition should never define a person. It is just one part of them. I have had this debate many times before and feel very uncomfortable when one aspect of someone's life is seen to be used as an 'identifier'.

[tabulahrasa]

Every few months a thread appears on here about the parallels between disability and identity and gender identity...

And tbh, the parallels only exist if you’ve a pretty privileged experience of disabilities.

[NiceGerbil]

The words identity- identify as. Have also been appropriated bastardised etc.

Same as so many other arguments, concepts, words have been in the last couple years.

[NiceGerbil]

Causing huge damage to those who needed them as they originally meant.

[NiceGerbil]

Identify as.

Do you identify as means I suppose what labels would you apply to yourself.
Or your identity. What things about yourself do you feel are key.

And I don't know it used to be really the way it is now.

So I dunno.

Things like. Arsenal fan. Artistic. Seriously into goth. The things important for you about who you are.

Not explaining well!

Then do you identify as disabled- do you feel that label is for you? Do you see yourself as disabled.

Stuff like sex, where you were born, what your job is. Just facts.

How many children do you have?
Are you a mother?

Are different questions to, do you identify as a mother. That is more about your feelings and weighed against other possible labels.

Bad example!

This is hard to articulate!

[CharlieParley]

I understand what you mean, NiceGerbil. I think asking someone if they identify as disabled misses the point. It's usually done when organisations etc seek to find out if they're a) meeting the needs of all people they interact with as an organisation and b) reflecting the makeup of our society by including as staff or service users a proportionate number of people with a disability. But you don't really want to know if people identify as disabled, you want to know if they fave challenges in working for you or using your organisation that you need to make adjustments for.

That's My friend who creates surveys for the NHS prefers different wording rather than "identify as", such as "do you have a condition that significantly impacts your daily life" (not an exact quote). Because as you say it's a loaded term and not everyone who has a disability necessarily identifies as disabled if they have found ways to manage it.

And it's so loaded a term, too. My brother is neuro-atypical with a number of other issues. Not visible unless his ticks manifest, which is rare these days. As a mid-teen my parents had him tested, because they knew he needed more help to progress than they could give him and the testing was needed to get him onto support programs. He's registered as disabled, although my parents reject that label. And if you asked my brother if he identifies as disabled, he would say no. He'd be quite offended, too.

My mum's friend refused to have her daughter, who had the same condition tested, because she did not want a diagnosis as disabled attached to her. It was undeniably a stigma then. It is one now.

But that meant the daughter didn't get onto the programs my brother did. He finished school and got GCSEs. He learned a trade. He learned to live independently. He learned enough about learning to get a driving licence. It took him three years of studying for the theory test, but he learned it all. He has had a part-time job for the last ten years. He fully enjoys his life. That's what the diagnosis as disabled enabled.

[NiceGerbil]

The assumptions around what labels are important to humans as a group are very weird.
In particular the assumption that pretty much everybody has at the core of their sense of themselves, a gender identity.

This has never been verified.

Whether most people have one.
How central it is to how they conceptualise themselves, what they see as key to who they are.

Sorry rambling!

[NiceGerbil]

'That's My friend who creates surveys for the NHS prefers different wording rather than "identify as", such as "do you have a condition that significantly impacts your daily life" (not an exact quote). Because as you say it's a loaded term and not everyone who has a disability necessarily identifies as disabled if they have found ways to manage it.'

Yes-

NHS
Benefits claim forms
Insurance policies will be v clear on exactly what sort and level and impact they need to know.

[cariadlet]

For those who aren't sure what way to take this, it's not just the lead character who has cerebral palsy; Tim Renko, the actor playing him (who also wrote the show) has cerebral palsy. I saw him interviewed on Channel 4 news recently.

[NiceGerbil]

Registered disabled- is that for parking?

I never know quite what that means!

For equality monitoring. Where it's not going to prompt any action.
Identify as disabled is fine.

The more detailed descriptions and questions also need to be handled with care.

You're being forced to think about things that day to day you don't confront. Ignore. To sit down and be forced to really think about what you can't do. Is stressful and can be upsetting.

So I think only when really needed tbh.

[cariadlet]

For those who aren't sure what way to take this, it's not just the lead character who has cerebral palsy; Tim Renko, the actor playing him (who also wrote the show) also has cerebral palsy. I saw him interviewed on Channel 4 news recently.


He's said before that he wanted to avoid the cliches about disabled people and create a dislikeable disabled character, hence the play on words with the title (he's a jerk whose body jerks uncontrollably - as it does in real life).



He takes the piss out of disabled people, attitudes to disabled people and in the extract in the op, he seems to be taking the piss out of earnest young people who are obsessed with identity politics and are anxious not to offend and to be inclusive.

[NiceGerbil]

I thought from what I read they were being arseholes to him.

But I haven't listened to it.

He takes the piss out of disabled people?!

I imagine it's a bit more nuanced than that!

[littlbrowndog]

I watched it. Was kinda clumsy but the message was good

But reading stuff up thread was good as well

The woky woman was dead patronising and was a parody of all the wokies

[littlbrowndog]

Have a watch gerbil. It’s clumsy. But I got the message