If TWAW

(21 Posts)
Megasausagehead Thu 22-Jul-21 02:49:18

Hi
I can't sleep, had to write my thoughts down.

I'm no prose, it's perhaps clumsy and trite, but it's how I feel.

If you want to add to it, please do. If you don't, that's ok too.

If transwomen are women

Women are secondary, fragile and weak,
nobody listens when they try to speak.
If transwomen are women, what did you expect?
To be valued and acknowledged? To get some respect?

Women aren't heard, they don't have a voice,
they struggle and fight, but don't have much choice.
If transwomen are women, why can't you see?
We've begged and we've pleaded, we've been on our knees.

Women are possessions that men bully and use,
they suffer in silence and hide their abuse.
If transwomen are women, why the surprise?
Of course you'll have bruises and pain in your eyes.

Women fight daily, our safety's at risk,
but nobody listens, our needs are dismissed.
If transwomen are women, what don't you get?
Fear and violence from men, we've grown to expect?

Men beat us and rape us, rate 90 percent!
There's no denying, women don't choose to consent.
If transwomen are women, you know this is fact.
It's out there in crime stats men prefer to retract.

#Metoo was amazing, powerful and strong,
Victims long silenced, blamed, always wrong.
If transwomen are women, you know this is true.
You’ve suffered it daily, you’ve walked in our shoes.

Sex and gender are not the same thing,
One makes you stronger, dominance it brings.
If transwomen are women, you know its not fair.
Women aren’t equal in strength, but men just don’t care

Women need spaces, separate and safe.
Somewhere to go when they finally escape.
If transwomen are women, penis intact,
get out of our spaces, get off of our backs.

Women understand, you’ve suffered abuse too,
It’s hurt you and harmed you, we get it, we do.
If transwomen are women, fight for your rights.
But don’t trample on women, stand with us and fight.

We both are equal and separate, both have rights,
Protected characteristics with Safeguarding in sight.
If transwomen are women, you would understand,
We don’t wish to harm you, together we’ll stand.

OP’s posts: |
curleyismyname Thu 22-Jul-21 06:51:23

Brilliant!

MishyJDI Thu 22-Jul-21 20:13:35

Creative. But if being a woman, is so tough....why would any trans woman wish to do so? They wouldn't logically. Why give up male privilege? A. Because they never were men.

It's not so hard to see diversity in people - of gender and sex.

Transpeople are just trying to exist and live their lives. I see them struggle and get bullied by us that should be supporting them.

Cailin66 Thu 22-Jul-21 20:18:22

That’s fantastic. I feel your pain. But know this, we women will win. But only after women are raped and murdered in California jails. That is the price for winning this. And nothing any of us can do to stop that, try as we might.

LastSummerHere Thu 22-Jul-21 20:19:41

I like PART of it....but the first few stanzas I don't. I don't like you simply stating that women are weak and once men take oestrogen then they should expect to be weak too. We are NOT weak. Having less arm strength ffs does not make us weak.we have strength in our core that men can only dream of!!

If I were to write a poem or a song, I'd be sure to tell men every step of the way that WE are the ones to nurture life and nothing they ever do comes close to that!

confuseddotcomma Thu 22-Jul-21 20:20:00

@MishyJDI because the shit parts of being a woman, trans women will never experience. They will never experience periods, period pain, the fear and embarrassment of period leaks, risk of accidental pregnancy, sex discrimination, labour, abortion, fear of male violence, rape, etc etc etc

Kettledodger Thu 22-Jul-21 20:20:29

@MishyJDI you just don't get it do you. Often they don't give up their male privilege because they still BEHAVE male. That was the whole point of the OP if you were really wanting to be seen as women stand with us against all the misogyny hurled at us throughout our lives rather than add to it!

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Megasausagehead Thu 22-Jul-21 20:24:39

MishyJDI

Creative. But if being a woman, is so tough....why would any trans woman wish to do so? They wouldn't logically. Why give up male privilege? A. Because they never were men.

It's not so hard to see diversity in people - of gender and sex.

Transpeople are just trying to exist and live their lives. I see them struggle and get bullied by us that should be supporting them.

Transwomen aren't giving up male privilege at all. They remain physically stronger. Mostly they keep their genitals intact.

Women by sex are not demanding entry to Transwomen safe spaces. We aren't trying to take from them. All we want is to maintain our boundaries.

I support their diversity, with separate safe spaces. Not to the detriment of women.

OP’s posts: |
irresistibleoverwhelm Thu 22-Jul-21 20:29:47

A. Because they never were men.

@MishyJDI, I'm genuinely curious. Where does this essence of femaleness reside? Is it in a soul or the brain or the mind or something else?

If they were born as men how can they never have been men? Where is the woman bit?

Megasausagehead Thu 22-Jul-21 20:36:22

LastSummerHere

I like PART of it....but the first few stanzas I don't. I don't like you simply stating that women are weak and once men take oestrogen then they should expect to be weak too. We are NOT weak. Having less arm strength ffs does not make us weak.we have strength in our core that men can only dream of!!

If I were to write a poem or a song, I'd be sure to tell men every step of the way that WE are the ones to nurture life and nothing they ever do comes close to that!

Rather than being meant as facts, women are weak etc, it was more about how we are treated in a patriarchal society historically.

Of course women are strong, resilient, fighters for justice. But getting heard above social assumptions of men is hard.

I can see what you mean, reading my nighttime ramblings back though.

Just, if TWAW, who would choose persecution?

OP’s posts: |
Whatsnewpussyhat Thu 22-Jul-21 20:38:43

Mishy, do you think that Laurel Hubbard is now taking a female spot in the Tokyo Olympics because they are an oppressed minority or is it because they are a privileged wealthy white male, and as such are given everything their male entitlement demands?

Privileged white men cheered on for appropriating the oppression of other groups. Hailed as heroes for taking opportunities away from oppressed females. Who are the bullies again?

BaronMunchausen Thu 22-Jul-21 23:35:09

* they never were men*
Will that fact be respected by the health service?

Will they turn down prostate examinations in favour of cervical smears?

Or will gynaecology departments have to be renamed?

ErrolTheDragon Fri 23-Jul-21 06:51:54

* Because they never were men*
So Jenner should return that decathlon gold, a category no woman is eligible for?
Not to mention all the TW who have fathered children. They were - and remain - men.

BaronMunchausen Fri 23-Jul-21 12:02:34

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

BreatheAndFocus Fri 23-Jul-21 12:08:27

But if being a woman, is so tough....why would any trans woman wish to do so? They wouldn't logically. Why give up male privilege? A. Because they never were men

Because some (with dysphoria) see no other option. Because others only see the good parts of being a woman. They don’t have to give up their male privilege to be a TW and will have grown up with that privilege.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 23-Jul-21 13:23:57

TW don't give up their male privilege.

^ Women aren't heard, they don't have a voice,^
they struggle and fight, but don't have much choice.

Who gets the media coverage (until a little, very recently, after a lot of struggle) - transwidows or their partners/former partners?

BaronMunchausen Fri 23-Jul-21 13:32:52

"Just, if TWAW, who would choose persecution?"

Those who become extreme trans rights activists certainly don’t choose persecution.

The extreme TRAs instead choose to lord it over women, targeting inter alia their deepest hideouts - refuges, maternity care etc. Instead of being gracious guests of womanhood - consulting, deferring etc (in line with their own standpoint epistemology and feminine stereotypes) – the extreme activists seek wholesale redefinition of 'woman' around them, with a message that i not just 'budge over' but 'get to the back, I'm at the front'. Only biological women need to subscribe to the handmaiden 'be kind' stereotype.

This male-pattern psychology inevitably extends to depicting women as disproportionately inclined to be 'bigots', and to aggression and vile misogynistic abuse.

Mulletsaremisunderstood Fri 23-Jul-21 13:37:09

MishyJDI

Creative. But if being a woman, is so tough....why would any trans woman wish to do so? They wouldn't logically. Why give up male privilege? A. Because they never were men.

It's not so hard to see diversity in people - of gender and sex.

Transpeople are just trying to exist and live their lives. I see them struggle and get bullied by us that should be supporting them.

Oh you again, ignoring the point and just blathering on regardless. How delightful.

GCrebel Fri 23-Jul-21 13:42:56

If Transwomen were women, they'd be ignored.

irresistibleoverwhelm Fri 23-Jul-21 15:08:01

irresistibleoverwhelm

*A. Because they never were men.*

*@MishyJDI***, I'm genuinely curious. Where does this essence of femaleness reside? Is it in a soul or the brain or the mind or something else?

If they were born as men how can they never have been men? Where is the woman bit?

@MishyJDI

Would you be able to reply, Mishy? I’m genuinely interested in this and would like to find out.

BaronMunchausen Fri 23-Jul-21 15:23:28

"Transpeople are just trying to exist and live their lives. I see them struggle and get bullied by us that should be supporting them."

Are you able to see that the other way round?

Women throughout the world struggle and get bullied. By males. Biological males who feel they are/want to be women should support women. Many do.

But the most vocal - and the ones that most liberals pay attention to - do the opposite: they will not listen to women ("no debate, terf), put themselves before women, and in far too many cases bully and threaten women with concerns about self-id.

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