Caitlyn Jenner flip flopping on womens sports

[zanahoria]

"Caitlyn Jenner appeared to have changed her mind again about where she stands on transgender participants in California school sports when she said Wednesday that as Governor she would set up a state "commission" to decide which players are "truly trans" enough to play on the teams that match their gender identity."

www.newsweek.com/caitlyn-jenner-flips-transgender-sports-issue-wants-state-determine-who-truly-trans-1595662

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

Of course CJ did - there is no surprise here, I'm not even disappointed (given CJ's general politics).

[zanahoria]

it won't win the trans lobby over

[Thelnebriati]

So will CJ give up Sherwood Country golf club membership? I understand its a men only club that bars women.

[SunnydaleClassProtector99]

Oh Mumsnet never like my songs.
Must not Julia Donalddon my posts.

[SmokedDuck]

I'm not sure I'd call it a flip flop to talk about setting up a commission, so long as their research was honest and straightforward. It seems like the question was asking if males who went on puberty blockers young and never had a male puberty could play fairly against women. Which is not as straightforward a question.

[SunnydaleClassProtector99]

That doesn't sound like a safe thing to do at all.
Regardless of fairness.

[Signalbox]

It seems like the question was asking if males who went on puberty blockers young and never had a male puberty could play fairly against women. Which is not as straightforward a question

I suspect the cohort of male children who are put on PBs very early will be so wracked with health issues that they won’t be a threat to women’s sports.

[MrsMidClegs]

@Signalbox

It seems like the question was asking if males who went on puberty blockers young and never had a male puberty could play fairly against women. Which is not as straightforward a question

I suspect the cohort of male children who are put on PBs very early will be so wracked with health issues that they won’t be a threat to women’s sports.

I'd always wondered this. Brittle bones at the very least for transgirls.
Poor transboys, brittle bones and then breast-binding. Feel extremely sad for these children.

[acatcalledjohn]

Why is it always about transwomen and not transmen?

Rhetorical question.

[SunnydaleClassProtector99]

To be honest I would have a problem with women effectively doping testosterone competing against women.
It's cheating. A complex cheat, but unfair nonetheless.

[SmokedDuck]

@Signalbox

It seems like the question was asking if males who went on puberty blockers young and never had a male puberty could play fairly against women. Which is not as straightforward a question

I suspect the cohort of male children who are put on PBs very early will be so wracked with health issues that they won’t be a threat to women’s sports.

I think that's very likely, and FWIW I am not convinced that even if that wasn't a factor, elite sports should allow it. But it's also true that we don't really know what it would look like in terms of fairness. It might be worth looking at just from the point of view of better understanding the effects of that kind of medical intervention.

At the recreational level though, it might not have anything like the same safety concerns which would be the more important factor for that kind of sport.

The bigger concern I'd have around the committee would be whether they were willing and able to really look at the issue in a fair way. It would be fraught even if they really wanted to.

[334bu]

Concerning puberty blockers, it might well be true that health problems caused by such treatment might preclude these children from participating in sporting activities. However, it should also be noted, that male advantage begins well before puberty as statistics from the US prove. From about the age of 8 boys outperform girls in all track and field events recorded in the USA.

[NiceGerbil]

Any attempts to say these males can and these males can't is fraught with problems.

I also think it's s bad idea to give young children the message that if you can get these drugs you'll be deemed a girl.

The sex deliniation is, no matter what others say, clear and straightforward.

The issues around intersex, females on testosterone etc are tricky but need to be handled separately.

[334bu]

Not sure why females on testosterone would be tricky, as there are very clear rules about doping. This would mean that transmen on T would exclude themselves from the female category. However, if the.male category became an open category then transmen could compete there. Unfortunately their chances of winning anything would be unlikely. Transwomen, being male, can already compete in the male category