Any GC feminists with autism?

(81 Posts)
GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 17:21:51

Hi all. NC for this. I am currently awaiting diagnosis for autism. I’m in my late 30s so it is a later life diagnosis. I am strongly gender critical but cannot be open about this at work. I am pretty high functioning in my career. I struggle a bit socially but not too badly.

One of the things I struggle with is how anyone can take gender ideology seriously. And also how someone can just not care. It’s just so blatantly a load of rubbish. Because this realisation about my autism is quite a recent one, I wonder whether being autistic has anything to do with my way of thinking. Obviously the majority of GC feminists will be NT but it would be interesting to hear from anyone who thinks their autism influences how they approach this issue.

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FrankensteinIsTheMonster Sat 29-May-21 17:27:30

Hiya.

For me it means constant cognitive effort and discomfort when required to speak counterfactually as part of someone else's GD treatment. I'm willing to accept that effort and discomfort that for the sake of someone for whom transition is a necessary intervention for a serious problem. Not so happy about being required to do so all the time for no perceptible benefit.

cariadlet Sat 29-May-21 17:29:30

I'm autistic and GC. My autism might be a factor. I'm very logical and don't like woolly thinking - one of the reasons I'm pro-science and an atheist. But then many skeptics are NT so it's hard to know how much my autism influences my mind set.

Clarice99 Sat 29-May-21 17:31:35

Yes, I have a diagnosis of autism and I am GC.

I believe gender is just made up of facets of ones personality. Sex is biological. To me, it's either male or female. No in-between.

Black or white. No shades of grey, except for grey clothing as my skin tone does not suit black or white grin

I believe my black and white thinking is definitely autism related. But the sex issue, that's based on science. My thought processes are so rigid, I don't think I will ever believe anything other than science based facts.

GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 17:34:25

Thanks all of you! Yes, I am also very fact-based in my thinking and I love logic. Things need to make sense in my head which is why I find it so hard to get my head around all the cis/assigned at birth stuff.

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PurgatoryOfPotholes Sat 29-May-21 17:35:47

<waves hand>

FatCatThinCat Sat 29-May-21 17:35:57

My autism massively affects my ability to lie. If someone asks me a question where I know social norms require a lie, eg 'Do you like my new dress?' when I think it's horrid, I have to literally put my hands over my mouth to stop the truth coming out. Biology is a fact and I can't lie about it, no matter how much I may want to or how much others try to coerce me into it.

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GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 17:38:45

FatCatThinCat

My autism massively affects my ability to lie. If someone asks me a question where I know social norms require a lie, eg 'Do you like my new dress?' when I think it's horrid, I have to literally put my hands over my mouth to stop the truth coming out. Biology is a fact and I can't lie about it, no matter how much I may want to or how much others try to coerce me into it.

Oooh, yes, I get this. I can’t say ‘gender’ when I mean sex. When people say trans women are women, I just want to scream ‘why?’ and ‘how?’.

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GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 17:39:08

PurgatoryOfPotholes

<waves hand>

👋

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TragicRabbit Sat 29-May-21 17:39:22

For me it’s the factual inaccuracy. It’s like a religion that I can’t buy into and yet am having to pretend belief in just to socially survive.
I’m very interested in (ok obsessed with) the 16 and 17th centuries, and there are so many disturbing parallels.
I had a lot of issues growing up around becoming a woman (my mum actually slapped me around the face because I became hysterical when I started my periods). I dread to think what I could have put myself through if I was 11 now.

cariadlet Sat 29-May-21 17:43:56

I've learned to tell white lies to save people's feelings but can only do it when I'm prepared eg if I'm opening a a present, I know that I might not like it and have learned what I should say and what facial expressions to make.

It's only when somebody asks me a question that I hadn't expected, that I have to blurt out whatever's in my head.

Luckily, there haven't been any conversations about trans issues at work - so far at least.

FrankensteinIsTheMonster Sat 29-May-21 17:45:48

I'm not so bad with being asked about stuff that's matters of opinion, or where I can dodge it. If asked "Do you like my new dress?" and I didn't, I'd find something else to say about it that they might reasonably take to mean yes. If asked "Do you like my new dress" and they were wearing dungarees, it would be more of a struggle to go along with it.

GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 17:46:08

TragicRabbit

For me it’s the factual inaccuracy. It’s like a religion that I can’t buy into and yet am having to pretend belief in just to socially survive.
I’m very interested in (ok obsessed with) the 16 and 17th centuries, and there are so many disturbing parallels.
I had a lot of issues growing up around becoming a woman (my mum actually slapped me around the face because I became hysterical when I started my periods). I dread to think what I could have put myself through if I was 11 now.

Oh yes. I remember being absolutely grossed out by the idea of puberty and periods and wanting to remain a child. I didn’t start my periods until nearly 15 so by that time it wasn’t so bad but I would have been freaked out by an early puberty. If I could have blocked it, I reckon that would have looked tempting.

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RickiTarr Sat 29-May-21 17:48:16

Me too, dxed in my twenties, now also have a twenty something GC DD (which is a relief because so many autistic young women are being sucked into the gender tinsel factory).

Can’t RTFT now, so just marking my place and saying hi 👋🏻

Namechangecosguilty Sat 29-May-21 17:54:08

This is really interesting. Hope you don't mind me commenting as I'm almost certainly NT. I do have an autistic child, hence why I'm interested.

Some people have said that autistic people have more of a tendency to believe in gender ideology, but I haven't seen any proof of that. I wonder if it's mainly younger autistic people who, in common with all young people, are searching for a sense of identity and belonging? I've no idea.

I've spoken with my autistic teen about gender identity and I get the feeling he's not questioning his own but is open to others doing so, which is fine by me.

I know puberty was traumatic for me so can see why girls would want to opt out.

Some people have likened gender ideology to 'the Emperor's New Clothes'. I always found that story difficult to get my head around (which I know is the point).

Again, apologies if I'm butting in !!

AnnaMagnani Sat 29-May-21 17:58:27

I think there are loads of us.

You might like this talk with Rachel Ara where she speaks about her autism:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIORoksarDI

GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 18:04:39

cariadlet

I've learned to tell white lies to save people's feelings but can only do it when I'm prepared eg if I'm opening a a present, I know that I might not like it and have learned what I should say and what facial expressions to make.

It's only when somebody asks me a question that I hadn't expected, that I have to blurt out whatever's in my head.

Luckily, there haven't been any conversations about trans issues at work - so far at least.

Yep me too. I can do it if I am prepared but it’s harder when I am put on the spot

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GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 18:07:47

Namechangecosguilty

This is really interesting. Hope you don't mind me commenting as I'm almost certainly NT. I do have an autistic child, hence why I'm interested.

Some people have said that autistic people have more of a tendency to believe in gender ideology, but I haven't seen any proof of that. I wonder if it's mainly younger autistic people who, in common with all young people, are searching for a sense of identity and belonging? I've no idea.

I've spoken with my autistic teen about gender identity and I get the feeling he's not questioning his own but is open to others doing so, which is fine by me.

I know puberty was traumatic for me so can see why girls would want to opt out.

Some people have likened gender ideology to 'the Emperor's New Clothes'. I always found that story difficult to get my head around (which I know is the point).

Again, apologies if I'm butting in !!

Yes I’ve heard that too. I think it’s more that it’s offered as an escape route and a way to feel better. When I was younger I constantly searched for belonging and validation (largely unsuccessfully). I guess that transition can also become a project or a special interest for some. Honestly, I really fear for young autistic girls now. It was bad enough in the 90s before porn culture and social media. Must be so so hard if you feel that you don’t really fit.

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GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 18:08:35

Thanks @AnnaMagnani I will check that out. I love Rachel Ara.

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Namechangecosguilty Sat 29-May-21 18:17:25

@GCandautistic
This is why I am a little worried about a friend's daughter.

She's not diagnosed but even her mum thinks she is probably autistic.

She's thankfully through the worst bits of puberty, but during that time she has self harmed and been confused about her sexuality (think she's now realised she is gay which is great).

She would be a prime candidate for gender ideology grooming. It wouldn't be so bad to experiment if there wasn't the option to cause irreversible damage to the body at a time of great confusion for most people.

She's a clever girl and scientifically minded so I'm hopeful she'll find her way.

FrankensteinIsTheMonster Sat 29-May-21 18:20:46

Namechangecosguilty — you see a lot of young low-support-needs autistics heavily involved in gender-ideology stuff, and I think there's a few reasons behind that:
- Many are preoccupied with fairness, and this is the current most fashionable social justice campaign
- Most will have personal experience of what it feels like to be the outsider, and instinctively side with those they perceive to be in that position
- Many societal gender roles and norms are arbitrary and not backed up by logic, leading autistics to question them, and modern gender ideology is often the main thing they come across when they start to investigate
- Many autistics will struggle to play the gender role society allocates to people of their sex (and would struggle with playing any societally-imposed roles, because of the nature of their brains) and genderism provides an explanation and a get-out

Additionally, a lot of online "autistic" communities have moved heavily towards a self-ID framework. Identifying as "autistic" (regardless of whether one would meet diagnostic criteria including the requirement for symptoms to have significant detrimental impact on say-to-day-functioning) shares many benefits with, and had a great deal in common with, identifying as gender-variant in some way. A ready-made and validating community, vindication of one's differentness/specialness, the ability to claim one is disadvantaged or subject to discrimination, justification for flouting arbitrary social rules, and so on. The individuals who are drawn to identifying as some variety of "queer" are often the same ones who are drawn to identifying as "neurodivergent". So in addition to there being what seems to be genuinely high levels of autistic people who are of a minority sexual orientation or identify as gender-variant in some way, there's also lots of people describing themselves as queer and autistic who haven't been assessed for autism, don't want to be assessed for autism, and IMO likely wouldn't meet criteria if they were.

FrankensteinIsTheMonster Sat 29-May-21 18:22:18

Scuse typos.

Namechangecosguilty Sat 29-May-21 18:26:15

@FrankensteinIsTheMonster
Yes, that makes a lot of sense thank you.

FrankensteinIsTheMonster Sat 29-May-21 18:43:13

Unfortunately, diagnostic assessment for autism can be very difficult to access, especially for those who are disadvantaged in other ways, and diagnostic techniques can tend to miss the presence of autism in women and girls. This feed into the trend for self-ID in autism — there are many undiagnosed autistics, particularly women and girls, who can benefit from participating in autistic communities but have no way to obtain the correct diagnosis. Autistic communities tend to want to accept and welcome these people, so will institute pro-self-ID policies in order not to exclude those without access to decent diagnostic services. Then the communities are taken over by the self-identified.

GCandautistic Sat 29-May-21 18:44:35

Yes, thanks for that explanation @FrankensteinIsTheMonster. That makes a lot of sense.

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