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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

I'm so f****** proud of myself.

95 replies

ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:16

By nature, I am a quiet person who avoids confrontation and silentlyds seethes instead. Today I stood up for myself. I am so fucking proud, and adrenaline filled! I'm currently editing a book for a man that I was introduced to. The way he refers to women throughout is disgusting, they are "good lays," and described only by if they are old and disgusting or young and sexy. He only ever calls them girls regardless of age.

In the first scene where only girls are talking, they sit around and talk about how fit the men are, how big their penises are. And for the worst bit that really fucking triggered me - he narrates how an adult male teacher gets a hard on and has a wank because a teenage pupil teased him. (Obviously it's the little slags fault...)

Every other paragraph is another assault on women. And pathetically, it got to the point I was almost in tears to be completely honest. The men in my life are feminists too, men who appreciate and support women. So to an extent I forgot that for some men, this really is how they view us. "Pieces of skirt" to chase. I gently suggested that we change this conversation to something more substantial and told him about the Bechdel test.

He said, and I quote "I wanted the women's chat to be irrelevant just like in real life." At this point, I don't know what came over me. But I absolutely let it rip on him, I was direct, honest and said exactly what I wanted to. I'm still shaking now, and I just wanted to share this. Because I really am, so fucking proud of myself today.

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PinkPlantCase · 26/05/2021 14:20

Welldone OP!! 👏👏👏

How did he react?

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PermanentTemporary · 26/05/2021 14:22

Bloody hell what a pathetic man. Delighte to hear he got some appropriate feedback...

Im really hoping he's an amateur and this won't be published! Though even worse if you're not being paid.

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NoToast · 26/05/2021 14:23

Good for you. Grin

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FieldOverFence · 26/05/2021 14:23

Excellent OP, well done you :D

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ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:24

@PinkPlantCase I sent it via Facebook message, he hasn't replied yet! I'm almost excited to see what he says.

@PermanentTemporary thankfully I am getting paid for it, but to be honest I am thinking that if he doesn't allow me to change this, then I will ask for my name to be kept out of it. I don't want my name associated with or supporting his absolute drivel!

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ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:25

This is what I sent to him:

This scene makes the women come across as empty, shallow airheads. And in the real world some women might be crude, but they have far more to talk about than men and penis sizes. It’s actually not something that comes up in everyday conversation. It seems like a lazy stereotype to have one of the only scenes focused on the women talking about who they fancy and ends with them going shopping. I think that if the rest of the novel involved females more, or spoke about them in a more balanced light like the men then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. It’s not just about appealing to university “do gooders,” in this day and age women, regardless of educational background, expect more from a book than reusing sexist old tropes. The racist and homophobic language in the narration is potentially another issue, as I think that you might find it difficult to find a publisher who is happy to promote and put their name behind this. From a statistical perspective, young people and females are much more likely to read fiction, so I do think that you need to cater to the audience to an extent. In particular, I think that talking about teenage girls giving their adult teacher a hard on is really dangerous territory in the message that it sends about adult men not being able to control themselves even with underage girls.

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Lottapianos · 26/05/2021 14:25

Oh wow! It feels so good to take an arsehole man to task, especially if it's not your usual style. How did he respond?

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CatrinVennastin · 26/05/2021 14:25

Well done OP. He sounds like a total twat. Is this a self published book? Doubt we'll be seeing it on the best seller list anytime soon.

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gamerchick · 26/05/2021 14:26

I hope you told him to stick his book.

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ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:27

@Lottapianos I am eagerly awaiting a response from him, and will of course update as soon as I get it!!

@CatrinVennastin yes self-published, I would be absolutely floored if he is successful in this. I've been helping as a favour as he is a friend of the family.

@gamerchick I'm seriously considering it!!

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Lottapianos · 26/05/2021 14:28

God, he sounds vile. I assume you gave him this bollocking over email

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Bonitalazenia · 26/05/2021 14:32

Woooohoooo! Good for you OP!!!!

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bunburyscucumbersandwich · 26/05/2021 14:32

Well done!

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ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:32

@Lottapianos

God, he sounds vile. I assume you gave him this bollocking over email

@Lottapianos Facebook message, he hasn't opened it yet. But I just feel so proud of myself for saying what I needed to say. It was really upsetting when I was reading it. And I try to raise my daughter in a way that she is confident to speak her mind, and today I decided I need to lead by example, and it all just came out!! Feels sooooo good! Grin
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Curatingchaos · 26/05/2021 14:32

Tell him to stick his book! You don’t want your name anywhere near that , surely?

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Montalbanosono · 26/05/2021 14:33

I hope he is paying you a lot to edit that drivel!

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tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 26/05/2021 14:34

Good for you OP!

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Montalbanosono · 26/05/2021 14:34

(And why does he presume to know what women talk about when men aren't around? He obviously knows nothing about women or girls).

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justawoman · 26/05/2021 14:34

Did you post about this man before, OP? You thought he was a friend and a feminist ally but he kept sending you disgustingly misogynistic things to read?

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Lottapianos · 26/05/2021 14:35

'Feels sooooo good!'

Bloody good for you. I read the riot act to an arsehole builder a while ago. I felt v wobbly afterwards but v proud of myself. You could have internalised all the upset and had a cry or whatever, but so much healthier to call out the other person's shitty behaviour and place the blame where it belongs

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ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:37

Thank you all

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ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:39

@Lottapianos

'Feels sooooo good!'

Bloody good for you. I read the riot act to an arsehole builder a while ago. I felt v wobbly afterwards but v proud of myself. You could have internalised all the upset and had a cry or whatever, but so much healthier to call out the other person's shitty behaviour and place the blame where it belongs

@Lottapianos Flowers good for you too! Sometimes, it needs to be done. We have to kick up a fuss. And you're absolutely right, it's much healthier than letting it ruin our day and making us feel like shit.
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Flapjak · 26/05/2021 14:40

Not sure i agree with this, it may be sexist and puerile but isnt he entitled to write that within context of free speech. I feel it is broaching into terrority of where writers have to be audited to erase anything that could be offensive? What about writers like irvine welsh, lots of offensive characters in that and liberal use of misogynistic terminology.

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justawoman · 26/05/2021 14:43

@Flapjak

Not sure i agree with this, it may be sexist and puerile but isnt he entitled to write that within context of free speech. I feel it is broaching into terrority of where writers have to be audited to erase anything that could be offensive? What about writers like irvine welsh, lots of offensive characters in that and liberal use of misogynistic terminology.

Telling someone they’ve written a load of misogynistic claptrap in no way infringes on their freedom of speech.

Or does every editor who ever made a suggestion for improving an author’s book also infringe on it?
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ItsANiceDayForAFeministRant · 26/05/2021 14:46

@Flapjak

Not sure i agree with this, it may be sexist and puerile but isnt he entitled to write that within context of free speech. I feel it is broaching into terrority of where writers have to be audited to erase anything that could be offensive? What about writers like irvine welsh, lots of offensive characters in that and liberal use of misogynistic terminology.

@Flapjak I agree, in real life there ARE sexist/homophobic/racist people, so in novels of course you can have characters who are sexist/homophobic/racist and I wouldn't want to edit them out. What I absolutely disagree with, is the narrator (not a character) stating that it is a teenage girls fault for teasing an adult man. Maybe this is curtailing his free speech, but so be it. It's not an okay message to spread. I also disagree with the actual writing being sexist (women get together, and all they talk about is penis size.) He specifically said to me that he wants the book to appeal to young adults, male AND female. In my opinion, unless he changes how women are presented or how he talks about them, females won't enjoy the book.
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