The SRA seems to have seen the light!

(35 Posts)
SigrunGard Fri 07-May-21 14:42:12

Hi - long time lurker definitely radicalised by this forum 😁

Not posted before but felt this was worth highlighting. Every 2 years the Solicitor’s Regulation Authority require all solicitor’s firms to ask their to complete a Diversity Questionnaire, and report back their diversity data.

In 2019, the questions were
- what gender do you identify with?
- do you consider your gender identity to be different from your registered sex at birth

The new questions this year are:
- What is your sex? (Options of male, female, other preferred description , prefer not to say)
- is the gender you identify with the same as your sex at birth?

Small changes I know but important! Apparently the changes have been specifically made as a result of “considering the research undertaken by the ONS in preparation for the 2021 census and listening to a range of voices on the matter”

Push......

OP’s posts: |
Seventrees Fri 07-May-21 14:45:18

Good news. Still needs to move a bit further, to a choice of 2 sexes.

StillFemale Fri 07-May-21 14:48:16

Good news, another reason it was worth women speaking up and raising money for the legal challenge to ONS at the time

Apileofballyhoo Fri 07-May-21 14:54:50

What if you don't identify with a gender though? It is a big improvement to have a straightforward what is your sex question though.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow Fri 07-May-21 14:58:19

That is great. The capture of the legal profession worries me even more than Medicine going full Kool-Aid.

FindTheTruth Fri 07-May-21 15:03:14

yes it's back to reality. Like Still says, they must have paid attention to the ONS court findings

SigrunGard Fri 07-May-21 15:06:14

@Apileofballyhoo - stuck with “prefer not to say” there unfortunately

@Seventrees- agreed! But at least they’re asking for your sex this time...

OP’s posts: |

Advertisement

Pudmyboy Fri 07-May-21 22:19:32

Good news, a step in the right direction at least! (at last!)

ChattyLion Fri 07-May-21 22:26:12

Good news.

HedgehogPoo Sat 08-May-21 00:27:31

Thank you for the information! Really good to hear about another success.

stumbledin Sat 08-May-21 00:44:15

Thanks to those who took the Census to court, and thank goodness at least one organisation has taken note.

I tried to present this as an arguement re collecting data on sex recently with a local government related organisation and they genuinely seemed unable to work out that their preference for the modern up to date use of the word gender was in conflict with the outcome of the Census decision.

Never heard of the SRA - but good to know. Maybe they would like to publish a paper on this decision and help influence others?? smile

Spero Sat 08-May-21 07:38:21

Sorry - I don't think this is good news at all. You will note they are allowing self identification of sex. This is exactly what the BSB are doing and I have challenged them.

I asked who they had consulted and was told - Stonewall, the ONS and the Association of Women Barristers.

The matter have simply ignored my emails requesting info as to what 'advice' they gave.

I do not think it is lawful to allow people to offer their own identification of what sex means and I will be taking this further.

midgedude Sat 08-May-21 07:42:59

Looks good to me

They possibly feel they need to allow some space in sex. Some intersex snd gender dysmorphic people may find simple binary sex question very difficult

I don't see why you can't say "no" to the gender identity question about it matching your sex

Perhaps if people knew how common that was it would give them pause for thought

PaleBlueMoonlight Sat 08-May-21 07:47:15

Yes, much better. I would like to see a n/a possible answer to the second question, rather than the assumption that everyone has a gender identity.

Helmetbymidnight Sat 08-May-21 07:53:16

i can see its an improvement but this is ridiculous-

is the gender you identify with the same as your sex at birth?

whats it meant to mean?- how do we know?how do you identify with a gender if they dont clearly lay out what a gender is?

Spero Sat 08-May-21 07:53:35

the options for sex should simply be 'male' 'female' or prefer not to say.

People with DSDs are still either male or female and entitled to claim that and be recognised as such.

I cannot see what possible utility there is in allowing people to insert their own preferred definition for sex. this destroys the utility of recording sex. Who did they consult over this?

I am surprised that so many seem to think this is a 'good thing'. I think its exactly the opposite.

TheWordWomanIsTaken Sat 08-May-21 07:54:16

I would like to not see the second question at all - I just can't understand what the relevance in knowing about someones personality is.

Helleofabore Sat 08-May-21 07:57:13

Thanks Spero for continuing to address this. It must be exhausting. flowers

Helmetbymidnight Sat 08-May-21 08:00:15

could they provide a list of what 'gender' is - bullet points maybe - and the relationship it has to your sex?

i mean this is all nonsense isnt it?

PaleBlueMoonlight Sat 08-May-21 08:03:17

Spero

Sorry - I don't think this is good news at all. You will note they are allowing self identification of sex. This is exactly what the BSB are doing and I have challenged them.

I asked who they had consulted and was told - Stonewall, the ONS and the Association of Women Barristers.

The matter have simply ignored my emails requesting info as to what 'advice' they gave.

I do not think it is lawful to allow people to offer their own identification of what sex means and I will be taking this further.

Yes, I can earth is too. There is a contrast between the perception of uncertainty around sex and the emphasis on the idea that it is OK to want not to declare it out loud, while at the same time assuming the universality of gender identity.

Spero Sat 08-May-21 08:03:27

I am writing to the Chairman of the Bar and saying if I see another questionnaire that says anything other than 'M F or prefer not to say' for sex I will be taking legal advice.

I really hope someone on the solicitor's side will do the same.

Bizarrely the last survey i got from the BC about working life at the Bar did have simply 'M F and prefer not to say' . There seems to be different wording everyone I get one of these surveys. I am now simply refusing to answer any which permit self identification of sex. I wasn't consulted about this, I don't think its lawful.

PaleBlueMoonlight Sat 08-May-21 08:04:03

Yes, I can earth is too = Yes, I can see this too.

musingloud Sat 08-May-21 10:46:24

That's great! Such a sensible question that serves women and transgender people.

Soontobe60 Sat 08-May-21 10:54:56

Spero

I am writing to the Chairman of the Bar and saying if I see another questionnaire that says anything other than 'M F or prefer not to say' for sex I will be taking legal advice.

I really hope someone on the solicitor's side will do the same.

Bizarrely the last survey i got from the BC about working life at the Bar did have simply 'M F and prefer not to say' . There seems to be different wording everyone I get one of these surveys. I am now simply refusing to answer any which permit self identification of sex. I wasn't consulted about this, I don't think its lawful.

If there is a ‘prefer not to say’ option for sex, then what’s the point of the question in the first place? The data will be skewed if people choose the 3rd option so it becomes worthless data.
Where a company wants to collect information in order to ensure they are addressing the pay gap between males and females, and 10% of their male employees choose the 3rd option, the data may well show there isn’t a pay gap between the sexes, particularly if those men are higher earning employees. Even worse, if it’s females that choose it, who are lower paid employees, the data could be skewed to show females in their organisation are paid more than males!

Feelinghothothottoday Sat 08-May-21 11:06:29

Exactly this - any data on gender pay will be rubbish. But it will enable orgs to tick that box that there is no pay gap on gender. Disgraceful. It took women years to get people to take notice of the pay gap.

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in