TW: Laila Mickelwait: [children pay] a devastating price for an unchecked Big Porn sex crime industry.

(159 Posts)
EmbarrassingAdmissions Tue 04-May-21 15:01:31

TikTok took down this young woman's first video in which she shared screenshots of her father's searches.

Teen discovered her father googling “real” “homemade” “teen” “rape” videos & “father daughter” incest abuse videos on the world’s largest porn tube sites.

The kids of this generation are paying a devastating price for an unchecked Big Porn sex crime industry.

twitter.com/LailaMickelwait/status/1389217984753946627

In various ways, this has been cropping up, recently. Some of us must be in relationships with, work with/alongside/for/supervise people who search for this material and actively exploit trafficked people.

What is it like for children to discover that a parent or other close relative does this? How do we expect children to engage with a society in which such people live among us? How do we expect VAWG to be addressed as the public health problem it is when social media is set up to facilitate this industry?

OP’s posts: |
QuentinBunbury Tue 04-May-21 15:15:22

shock
I'm surprised TikTok removed it. Must be more serious to have an allegation like this against a man than all the other dubious content on there hmm

EmbarrassingAdmissions Tue 04-May-21 15:18:54

TikTok removed the first one - the young woman's current one with names and some terms obscured is available in that Twitter thread.

It's still a horror.

OP’s posts: |
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark Tue 04-May-21 16:14:34

It really is. That poor girl. I hope she has cut all contact with him now.

MissBarbary Tue 04-May-21 16:57:27

That girl needs guidance and her father needs mercy. 2nd paragraph doesnt seem cogent with 1st one. She's not a vigilante with a cause, she has a broken communication with her father and that's rather devastating

My jaw dropped at this idiotic response.

EmbarrassingAdmissions Wed 05-May-21 10:53:19

I think that I was most struck by the difference between children finding porn in the house or having family members who behave inappropriately and in a way just thinking, "Oh, porn" (so to speak) - and the difference in seeing somebody's search history and viscerally feeling its match to you as an individual and your family dynamics.

And that's setting aside the young woman's recollection of times she may well have been drugged.

I'm not articulating this well. It feels very different to me - and I say that as somebody who grew up in an area where the women and children were perceived as objects for sexual consumption.

OP’s posts: |
FightingTheFoo Wed 05-May-21 10:56:23

Not gonna click on the Twitter thread but it does remind me of one of Hugh Hefner's ex girlfriends who said she wanted to be a Playboy model after discovering a stack of her dad's Playboy magazines and thinking all the women in them were so beautiful etc.

JediGnot Wed 05-May-21 11:18:35

EmbarrassingAdmissions

TikTok took down this young woman's first video in which she shared screenshots of her father's searches.

Teen discovered her father googling “real” “homemade” “teen” “rape” videos & “father daughter” incest abuse videos on the world’s largest porn tube sites.

The kids of this generation are paying a devastating price for an unchecked Big Porn sex crime industry.

twitter.com/LailaMickelwait/status/1389217984753946627

In various ways, this has been cropping up, recently. Some of us must be in relationships with, work with/alongside/for/supervise people who search for this material and actively exploit trafficked people.

What is it like for children to discover that a parent or other close relative does this? How do we expect children to engage with a society in which such people live among us? How do we expect VAWG to be addressed as the public health problem it is when social media is set up to facilitate this industry?

It seems like there are three entirely different issues here -

(1) The "teen" finding the search history. No-one wants to know that their dad watches porn, and they really don't want to know that they specifically seek out "father daughter incest" and "rape" as search terms.

(2) The acceptability of porn generally. Is consuming porn acceptable ever? Is it acceptable but only in very specific cases (eg women-friendly porn made by women is surely much less problematic than typical male-focussed porn.)

(3) The specific porn that he was looking at. Personally I cannot understand why anyone, male or female, would seek out "rape porn". Nor can I see what is arousing about incest porn. Nor can I see what is arousing about under-aged girls. BUT, being fucking kinky is not a crime and nor should it be. I believe that it is a reasonable expectation that if you are on one of "the world’s largest porn tube sites" the content should be and will be legal, which means watching -

(a) Performers acting out rape fantasies

(b) Performers acting out incest fantasies

(c) Adults who are young and look younger playing to society's obsession with youth (and let's be realistic, men are driven by biological urges to impregnate, so it's hardly surprising that men are attracted to relative youth).

I have no problem with people arguing against all porn, or almost all porn - on the other hand I think the idea that it might go away is utterly ludicrous. Getting caught by your daughter - dreadful, and a thousand times worse if you've googled teen and incest and rape. But I'm not sure what the bloke has really done wrong other than being kinky AF in a way I don't understand, and getting caught.

If he's looking for reality rape / incest / paedophile porn then the guy needs serious help and punishment, but I don;t see the evidence that he is.

JediGnot Wed 05-May-21 11:23:32

Just to be clear - I posted without clicking the link - I have just clicked on the link very briefly.

If this is true - "He gave her sleeping pills, drugs, and alcohol, and she said shes woken up with him in her bed multiple times... and he took her to see 50 shades of grey when she was 9" then that is clearly MASSIVELY CONCERNING (understatement of the decade). If he's googling with any intent to find real child porn or videos of rape then ditto, MASSIVELY CONCERNING to put it mildly.

And even if everything he did was above board then putting his daughter in the position of having concerns about the past due to a knowledge of the search history is unforgiveable.

ProudExclu Wed 05-May-21 12:11:20

* But I'm not sure what the bloke has really done wrong other than being kinky AF in a way I don't understand, and getting caught.

If he's looking for reality rape / incest / paedophile porn then the guy needs serious help and punishment, but I don;t see the evidence that he is.*

My jaw is on the floor. You think it’s Kinky AF to fantasise about raping children and fine as long as the actress just looks young?

SmokedDuck Wed 05-May-21 12:13:35

EmbarrassingAdmissions

I think that I was most struck by the difference between children finding porn in the house or having family members who behave inappropriately and in a way just thinking, "Oh, porn" (so to speak) - and the difference in seeing somebody's search history and viscerally feeling its match to you as an individual and your family dynamics.

And that's setting aside the young woman's recollection of times she may well have been drugged.

I'm not articulating this well. It feels very different to me - and I say that as somebody who grew up in an area where the women and children were perceived as objects for sexual consumption.

Yeah, I think this is a valid response.

I remember a friend finding playboy magazines in the garage. We looked at them of course and the whole Idea was a bit Eww, but it had a generic quality.

I know the way porn works now it tends to lead the viewer to more and more extreme material, so it's not surprising that a regular viewer ends up looking t those categories. And I think it really dulls the sense of how out of line they are.

But seeing them from the perspective of a daughter finding them really hits the mark so far as showing them up as basically depraved.

MissBarbary Wed 05-May-21 12:15:38

ProudExclu

* But I'm not sure what the bloke has really done wrong other than being kinky AF in a way I don't understand, and getting caught.

If he's looking for reality rape / incest / paedophile porn then the guy needs serious help and punishment, but I don;t see the evidence that he is.*

My jaw is on the floor. You think it’s Kinky AF to fantasise about raping children and fine as long as the actress just looks young?

My jaw is there with yours.

BigGreen Wed 05-May-21 12:24:31

Yes fundamentally it's the ease and reach of materials via the Internet that were formerly accessed in niche kink communities. These now show up on the front page of Pornhub and are accessible by any child using an unfiltered device.

This type of abusive material is going mainstream in a way that is likely to change sexual cultures. I mean we've already seen that with the research on hair pulling, choking and the work of We Can't Consent to This. I don't see it as a harmless kink. The idea that the Dad has done nothing wrong is absurd to me personally. I don't actually think incest porn should be legal.

JediGnot Wed 05-May-21 12:32:34

ProudExclu

* But I'm not sure what the bloke has really done wrong other than being kinky AF in a way I don't understand, and getting caught.

If he's looking for reality rape / incest / paedophile porn then the guy needs serious help and punishment, but I don;t see the evidence that he is.*

My jaw is on the floor. You think it’s Kinky AF to fantasise about raping children and fine as long as the actress just looks young?

I read “real” “homemade” “teen” “rape” “father daughter” "incest" "abuse".

I would assume a search of "teen" on a mainstream porn site would bring up videos of 18 and 19 year olds (and relatively young looking women in their early 20s). Likewise I would assume "incest" brings up porn performers pretending to be mother and son or father and daughter. Likewise "rape" would bring up horrible violent consensual sex that I personally wouldn't want to see.

So those search terms are "kinky AF" in a way that I find disgusting and I imagine most people find disgusting.

People who fantasize about / search for vids of actual rape, or raping children, or sex with their blood relatives - that is absolutely 100% sick and criminal. But nothing about those search terms proves that is what he was doing. I get that the daughter would be 100% creeped out, don't blame her at all, but in and of itself I don't think the search terms prove that he has gone past kinky AF territory and into sick bastard territory (but he might well have based on a quick click on the lick).

[[As an aside] And as for "young"... I'd be tempted to say that the age of consent should be - say - 14. With a sliding scale along the lines of -

14 year olds can consent to sex with people up to one year older.
16 year olds up to two years older
18 year olds up to five years older
21 year olds - anyone.]

But in the UK it is perfectly legal for a 70 year old man to sleep with a 16 year old... and neither is it a crime to sleep with an 18 year old who looks 14. As a man I understand the attraction to youth (by that I mean adults who are typically more toned and less wrinkly than older people), but I also understand that there is something deeply weird and very creepy about adult men who seek out young adult women. And my tolerance of paedophiles is - I am sure - as close to zero as everyone else on here.

JediGnot Wed 05-May-21 12:36:17

BigGreen

Yes fundamentally it's the ease and reach of materials via the Internet that were formerly accessed in niche kink communities. These now show up on the front page of Pornhub and are accessible by any child using an unfiltered device.

This type of abusive material is going mainstream in a way that is likely to change sexual cultures. I mean we've already seen that with the research on hair pulling, choking and the work of We Can't Consent to This. I don't see it as a harmless kink. The idea that the Dad has done nothing wrong is absurd to me personally. I don't actually think incest porn should be legal.

I didn't say he's done nothing wrong (or if I did I take that back). I don't get the "kink" but neither would I condemn him simply for watching pron which I find highly distasteful (to put it mildly).

I think that the issue of the volume of kinky AF porn and it's affect on society is a completely different from the issue of whether there is anything wrong with a particular individual watching porn made by consenting adults that most of the rest of us find disgusting.

JediGnot Wed 05-May-21 12:40:05

I think that there is a very strong argument that porn that purports to show incest or rape or even violence / aggression should be illegal... but then again different people have all sorts of fetishes, and policing the line between (say) a woman gently smacking the bottom of a consenting man and what should be illegal in terms of violence in porn would be a nightmare.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats Wed 05-May-21 13:21:26

Need to process this. Horrific. Poor girl. Thanks for sharing.

ProudExclu Wed 05-May-21 13:29:57

I can’t believe someone on mumsnet is defending this disgusting pervert I need a lie down.

Kinky AF. Wow. Just. Wow. They’re all around us aren’t they?

MissBarbary Wed 05-May-21 13:45:37

ProudExclu

I can’t believe someone on mumsnet is defending this disgusting pervert I need a lie down.

Kinky AF. Wow. Just. Wow. They’re all around us aren’t they?

Like you. I'm astonished by some of the posts on here.

JediGnot Wed 05-May-21 13:56:34

ProudExclu

I can’t believe someone on mumsnet is defending this disgusting pervert I need a lie down.

Kinky AF. Wow. Just. Wow. They’re all around us aren’t they?

May I ask you to re-read everything that I posted, carefully, and let me know precisely what you have a problem with?

To be clear - I think that "rape" and "incest" porn is absolutely disgusting, but I am not sure what business it is of mine to judge consenting adult performers or the people with warped fantasies.

Anyone seeking out videos of real rape and incest is sick as fuck and needs treatment and locking up too.

I can understand why the daughter would have MASSIVE problems with her father.

ProudExclu Wed 05-May-21 14:03:36

I did read it all. And you’re still justifying it with the line “but I am not sure what business it is of mine to judge consenting adult performers or the people with warped fantasies.”

It’s also incredibly narcissistic of you to assume that if I disagree or take issue with your comments I must not have read them fully or correctly.

picklemewalnuts Wed 05-May-21 14:20:34

Jedi, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't justify searching for those things- even expecting to find 'performers' rather than 'real'- as 'just kink'.

I think when fantasies are obscene and illegal then it's not 'just kink'. Sorry.

Those 'fantasies' are fantasies of abuse. I find it disturbing that you'd see abuse as 'just kink'.

Also, he specifies 'real' which imo means he isn't looking for realistic performed porn but actual abuse.

JediGnot Wed 05-May-21 14:28:56

ProudExclu

I did read it all. And you’re still justifying it with the line “but I am not sure what business it is of mine to judge consenting adult performers or the people with warped fantasies.”

It’s also incredibly narcissistic of you to assume that if I disagree or take issue with your comments I must not have read them fully or correctly.

I am genuinely curious to know what the problem is / was, and I also genuinely thought that my viewpoint was "normal". That some people have some really weird kinks and that most normal people avoid those kinks whilst respecting the rights of consenting adults to do what they want.

It seems that your main problem is that you think that it is unacceptable to perform in and / or watch certain types of porn (and maybe all porn). I agree with you 100% that porn that purports to show rape and incest is disgusting and it is also potentially very very harmful to individuals and society if it normalizes the worst of humanity and also normalizes serious crimes.

Where we disagree, I think, is that I think that a consenting adult couple in the UK should be able to pretend to be father and daughter, or engage in rough sex or role-play rape fantasies in the privacy of their own home. And if I think that then I also feel compelled to accept that it should be legal to perform or watch in porn.

I also find it hard to believe that there is a realistic way of legislating against it, let alone going the next stage and stopping it in practice.

TLDR - I accept some people have warped fantasies I find disgusting, you don't. Agree to disagree... also... society needs to do much more to teach young people that warped fantasies are really niche - they are not "wrong" but they are not "normal" either. Rough sex "performed" "on" a passive woman might work for some couples, but for the vast majority of normal people tenderness is infinitely more important.

Helmetbymidnight Wed 05-May-21 14:30:11

god, thats horrendous. absolutely horrendous.

who would go near a revolting man like this? hes fucked in the head.

BitMuch Wed 05-May-21 14:34:03

After this video she finds he is very deliberately searching for illegal child abuse images and informs the police.

This website contains explanation of UK law relating to this: www.stopitnow.org.uk/concerned-about-your-own-thoughts-or-behaviour/concerned-about-use-of-the-internet/get-the-facts/no-grey-area/. They have a free anonymous helpline too.

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in