BBC Sewing Bee

[Davros]

They regularly mention the differences between male and female bodies. How has this been allowed to slip through?

[risefromyourgrave]

I must admit in the last series final (I think) one of the tasks was to make a dress. One of the contestants made one for a man, which I thought at the time was a cop out, so much easier to not have to tailor around hips, boobs, etc.

[WindyPudding]

I think there are actually lots of areas where people are continuing to talk about men and women meaning their bodies/sexes. It slips through all the time, in medical contexts, things to do with size, reproduction etc. People probably just forget to be woke a lot of the time and switch into auto / common sense mode.

I have wondered about clothes and shoes in shops though. If you look at “women’s” shoes they still only go up to an 8 or max 9, and likewise women’s clothes aren’t made to fit male bodies, and that is surely transphobic according to transactivist definitions. But it’s the way it is for business reasons I would think. It wouldn’t be cost effective so they don’t do it.

I know there are special shops with larger sizes, but for a normal shop to sell women’s shoes that only go up to an 8 means they are open to accusations on transphobia, but it’s not something you hear much about.

[Tibtom]

Isn't it transphobic to point out transwomen need shoes outwith the standard women's size range?

[EdinburghFeminist]

I noticed this last week and wondered the same. I am in some sewing groups on Facebook and noticed recently that a couple of indie pattern companies have moved away from describing patterns as being for men or women and are using straight fit and curvy fit instead.

[PaleGreenGhost]

I dunno sometimes I think women's clothes probably do fit men's bodies better! I love h&m for its price and range but their clothes really don't love my hips and boobs. I notice they use trans models but never for the menswear.

[MoltenLasagne]

@EdinburghFeminist

I noticed this last week and wondered the same. I am in some sewing groups on Facebook and noticed recently that a couple of indie pattern companies have moved away from describing patterns as being for men or women and are using straight fit and curvy fit instead.

Well that's absurd as I'd consider myself a woman's straight fit due to lack of a bust but I'm hardly men's size and shape. You'd think the indie sewing community would understand there are enough fit variations just for women's bodies without making daft assumptions about how "curvy" you are being related to sex...

[WindyPudding]

Isn't it transphobic to point out transwomen need shoes outwith the standard women's size range?

I don’t know, it seems more “transphobic” to label a range as being for women but for it to be limited to the sizes of the female sex.

[EdinburghFeminist]

Yes I agree. There was a lot of disagreement about it on the group too but the company held firm.

[BarbaraofSeville]

@PaleGreenGhost

I dunno sometimes I think women's clothes probably do fit men's bodies better! I love h&m for its price and range but their clothes really don't love my hips and boobs. I notice they use trans models but never for the menswear.

I agree. I often think the dresses in M&S would fit men a lot better than most women.

Too much space in the shoulders and round the middle and not enough in the hips.

[WindyPudding]

There’s height as well as shape though. I’m 5’9” so not hugely tall but dresses and tops often aren’t long enough in the body, sometimes even if they do a tall option. So a TW of average male size or above would have problems.

[WorkWorkAngelica]

I think this is a startling part of the whole debate. The majority of life and the world is going about their business happily recognising binary sex, the associated genders, and not really giving a shit how people dress or what they call themselves. Binary sex and 2 genders are being used day in, day out to sell us stuff, to oppress us or promote us, to influence our children, to treat our medical conditions, everything.

Then you have this parallel narrative running on the internet, in the government and creeping into institutions that are cottoning on to the fact that right-think might get them some points.

On MN, Twitter and a few other places the two narratives meet and are critically discussed, but in the rest of society it's just sneaking in without anyone really paying it any attention.

[lazylinguist]

I think this is a startling part of the whole debate. The majority of life and the world is going about their business happily recognising binary sex

Yes, the people who are very engaged on one side of this debate are presumably in massive denial about the fact that it wouldn't even occur to the vast, vast majority of people in the world to question what the words 'woman' and 'man' mean, and that they can fairly effortlessly recognise the difference between them, regardless of how they dressand what they call themselves.

[highame]

The BBC isn't completely daft. If it brought the trans debate to Sewing Bee, it would prompt too many questions, so their answer is the introduce trans as a contestant. Just another hypocritical action by the Beeb. By the back door so as to quash debate.

All those supporters of critical race theory can only get this stuff accepted, by mission creep. Put it out for debate and watch it fall.

[NewlyGranny]

Bust darts! Bust darts are transphobic! How very dare they, on the woke BBC, too. Bigoted bustdarts, every last one of them.

Just don't get me started on Call the Midwife...

[NutellaEllaElla]

Have you heard about the knitting group purity spiral drama? It's happening in Sewing groups too. I'm in a facebook group where it's in the rules you mustn't start posts with "hello ladies" or even "ladies and gents", you must always acknowledge that not everyone is binary so gender neutral greetings only. Online groups only i'd wager. This is very much an online thing IMO.

[rabbitwoman]

Reminds me of Sarah pascoe - being very very pro twaw, as was cariad Lloyd. They both starvin pascoe's recent BBC sitcom which had a long to camera piece about how adipose fat is stored differently in male and female bodies..... Then Sara sat back on the episode of the last leg where Adam Hills had a prostate check on live telly (good!). He was saying 'men, get your prostate check! Men, there's nothing to be scared of!'

She didn't say a word about trans women. or how not all men have prostates.

[Angelica789]

I agree. I often think the dresses in M&S would fit men a lot better than most women.

Many fashion designers are gay men. No surprise a lot of women’s clothes are designed to suit the body of a teenage boy.

[Quincie]

I like the sewing bee - great entertainment - but I thought the BBC was all for inclusiveness - are there any straight males on the show?

[NutellaEllaElla]

Yes

[BattyOrange]

are there any straight males on the show?

The blurb says that Damien makes "the occasional dress for his partner, Jackie."

[Quincie]

But that's just one - I'm just concerned for the bbc failing to keep up their high standards

[PerryChavlova]

Many fashion designers are gay men. No surprise a lot of women’s clothes are designed to suit the body of a teenage boy.

That might sound like you're suggesting that gay male fashion designers are pædophiles.

[IntermittentParps]

Many fashion designers are gay men. No surprise a lot of women’s clothes are designed to suit the body of a teenage boy.
They're not.
Not if you mean people with flat chests. I'm tall and lanky (5' 10", size UK 8) and have a small bust and long arms, a bit like a rangy growing teenage boy (I have wide hips though).
Women's clothes don't fit me well; they're always too roomy in the bust and short in the sleeves. They are definitely cut for people with boobs.

[Itwasjustresting]

@WindyPudding

Isn't it transphobic to point out transwomen need shoes outwith the standard women's size range?

I don’t know, it seems more “transphobic” to label a range as being for women but for it to be limited to the sizes of the female sex.

I have seen this point made in all seriousness - that it’s transphobic for women’s clothes to be cut for the average female UK frame which is something like 5ft 5.

As someone who is well outside that norm I regard it as just another one of the many pains in the arse about being female in a world mainly designed for men and have no sympathy with hurt feelings. If I want a sweater that reaches my wrists I have to buy a man’s one.

[WindyPudding]

As someone who is well outside that norm I regard it as just another one of the many pains in the arse about being female in a world mainly designed for men and have no sympathy with hurt feelings. If I want a sweater that reaches my wrists I have to buy a man’s one.

Totally agree and I do the same, also often wear men's shoes and socks. It's never occurred to me that there was any "phobia" involved, just that I'm enough of an outlier for it not to be cost-effective.