BBC article on Elliot Page

[Sittinonthesand]

I don’t know anything about Page - I’ve only seen the name in the context of being trans, but this article contains several worrying/misleading half truths:

• talks about ‘top surgery’ without explaining that it = mastectomy (refers to ‘removal of breast tissue instead).
  
• talks about surgery as being ‘life saving’ without explaining why.
  
• says that trans children aren’t being allowed to play sport and this will lead some to die - doesn’t explain why they might die, doesn’t say that they can play sport but maybe not with the sex they’d like.

[Sittinonthesand]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56952345

[SydneyCarton]

EP’s Wikipedia and IMDb pages have been updated with “he/him” pronouns, but are film companies required to change their name on the credits of films they have previously starred in, and if not, is this misgendering? IMDb describes Page as the first trans actor to be Oscar nominated, which is rather disingenuous given that Page’s transition happened more than ten years after the nomination.

[EastWestWhosBest]

So if trans kids don’t play sport they will die? That’s a leap.
Much less of a leap is the one of a female bodies child being injured by a male bodied child. Or female bodied children never being able to get close to winning because every spot on the podium is occupied by someone who has gone through male puberty.

I’m glad that Elliot is feeling happy though and living as he feels is right for him.

One thought I had was about the series Umbrella Academy. In that he plays a female character, what would happen in a further series?


IMDb describes Page as the first trans actor to be Oscar nominated, which is rather disingenuous given that Page’s transition happened more than ten years after the nomination.

I agree. Even if Elliot knew inside he was trans at that point he was not living as a trans person and didn’t face any of the issues that would present.

[NecessaryScene1]

IMDb describes Page as the first trans actor to be Oscar nominated, which is rather disingenuous given that Page’s transition happened more than ten years after the nomination.

To these people, "trans" isn't a material reality, or a "thing you do", as Arty Morty put it.

It's a religious belief. It's a "soul". So she always had this "soul".

It's the same logic as detransitioners never being trans.

[Dontforgetyourbrolly]

I'm glad this person is happy in their body now .however I was confused why someone so unhappy with their appearance would become an actor , especially as the actress as she was then was in blockbuster Hollywood movies, surely that would be unnecessary torture. One part of the Oprah interview was about collapsing in a panic attack whilst wearing a dress , don't actors need to wear costumes and wear all manor of clothes on screen? How would that work as a job .

[NecessaryScene1]

One part of the Oprah interview was about collapsing in a panic attack whilst wearing a dress , don't actors need to wear costumes and wear all manor of clothes on screen? How would that work as a job .

Either someone is very, very bad at career selection, or someone is just reciting a narrative trope of their belief system to justify their current head space.

Looking at the rest of the stuff being said, I think the latter is more likely.

[nauticant]

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

[NecessaryScene1]

Back when I was at school, we had a careers advisory service, and they even had one of those computer things to ask you questions and stuff and suggest possible avenues to look at. Don't they have that any more?

But then again, I don't recall ever being asked the dress question.

[ASugarr]

The Opera interview he did recently is such an eye opening video. Honestly almost was in tears over how proud he is to be himself today 🤍

[Whatwouldscullydo]

I saw a clip of the interview I dont think they seemed happy at all. They looked painfully thin and just so sad.

There was nothing but the cliche stuff we have all heard before. It could have been anyone talking. It wasn't personal It was just repetition of everything we hear all the time. The usual emotional blackmail. No ones banning trans kids from.sport. mentally healthy people don't kill themselves.

Weball have tonwesrbstufd we hate. Work.uniforms. school uniform. Dressing up for granny's birthday or a friends wedding etc

When did we start indulging such reactions to that. When I was a kid I'd have got a smack and told to behave myself.

I hope they receive the help they need.

[SydneyCarton]

One thought I had was about the series Umbrella Academy. In that he plays a female character, what would happen in a further series?

I wondered this too, and whether Elliot will only play male roles in future or whether he will take on female roles also. And if he does play female roles, what is it about his “maleness” that allows him to do that, as compared to e.g. Tom Cruise’s “maleness” which does not?

[NeedNewKnees]

I thought Page looked unwell and extremely fragile.

[ASugarr]

@NeedNewKnees

I thought Page looked unwell and extremely fragile.

Testosterone does that to begin with. He was already rather thin before so I imagine the testosterone has gotten rid of that fat estrogen tries to collect. Hopefully his doctor has arranged a diet to help him.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

It can also cause anxiety/depression.

More than just a diet will he needed.

[ASugarr]

@Whatwouldscullydo

It can also cause anxiety/depression.

More than just a diet will he needed.

It can. But that tends to stem from the abuse transgender people face. But I'm sure he is having help alongside his transition.

[EastWestWhosBest]

It has made me think though. Acting is one of the very few jobs where there are gendered job titles. I can only think of landlord and landlady as alternatives.

[CorvusPurpureus]

E Page is clearly extremely unwell & in some distress.

Leaving aside the fact that Page is talking dangerous bollocks, the coverage feels uncomfortably ghoulish to me.

[ASugarr]

@CorvusPurpureus

E Page is clearly extremely unwell & in some distress.

Leaving aside the fact that Page is talking dangerous bollocks, the coverage feels uncomfortably ghoulish to me.

You can't make that kind of judgment by just seeing him. I wish him all the best and if he is happy then I'm proud for him! Transitioning isn't easy but it seems he's got support around him. Plus he is currently dealing with a divorce so let's not make judgements on that and his physical wellbeing without knowing the full situation.

[CorvusPurpureus]

I didn't actually mention Page's physical well-being, to be fair.

Although Page does also look emaciated, exhausted & frail beyond Page's years, now you come to mention it.

[R0wantrees]

These are potentially very harmful misleading claims. They may well be honestly believed by Page however, in my opinion, BBC is failing its responsibilities in reporting this way.

"Top surgery involves the removal of the breast tissue to create a masculine chest."
"Not only has it been life-changing for me, I do believe it's been life-saving and it's the case for so many people."
"with this horrible backlash we're seeing towards trans people, particularly trans youth"
"It's getting out of the shower and the towel's around your waist and you're looking at yourself the mirror and you're just like, 'There I am'. And I'm not having the moment where I'm panicked,"
"If you're not gonna allow trans kids to play sports, children will die,"

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Why not? I mean people are allowed to look and feel a bit rubbish sometimes. Even if things are absolutely the right thing and the best thing for someone to do, an adjustment period and some surprising reactions or a bit of a wobble are all perfectly normal things. Why the need to explain not appearing appearing be happy at that moment in time as down to other people or anything but being trans? They could be the happiest person on the planet right now but humans aren't robots and something can still be the right thing but have negative reactions involved in the process at some point nothing is instant and nothing is positive innediately akd all the time. you aren't betraying anything or anyone to acknowledge that

[HandInGlove85]

But that tends to stem from the abuse transgender people face.

Do you have a source for this assertion?

[R0wantrees]

Detransition-Related Needs and Support: A Cross-Sectional Online Survey
Elie Vandenbussche
Published online: 30 Apr 2021
(extract)
Abstract
"The results showed important psychological needs in relation to gender dysphoria, comorbid conditions, feelings of regret and internalized homophobic and sexist prejudices. It was also found that many detransitioners need medical support notably in relation to stopping/changing hormone therapy, surgery/treatment complications and reversal interventions. Additionally, the results indicated the need for hearing about other detransitioners’ experiences and meeting each other. A major lack of support was reported by the respondents overall, with a lot of negative experiences coming from medical and mental health systems and from the LGBT+ community. The study highlights the importance of increasing awareness and support given to detransitioners." (continues)

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00918369.2021.1919479

[Notagain20]

It saddens me enormously that girls will see this sort of thing and think that distress about developing a female body in a deeply, deeply misogynistic world is a sign of being transgender, rather than a normal emotional reaction to losing the freedom of childhood for girls. The myth that the solution to this distress is a double mastectomy and lifelong medication, instead of political action and female support. Breaks my heart to hear the cash registers ringing and patriarchy get more entrenched.

[Notagain20]

The endpoint of this is that we are left with the only women and girls allowed are those who are willing or happy to conform to increasingly sexualised expectations of female appearance and behaviour.

Any woman or girl who feels uncomfortable with sexualised expectations of femininity will be assumed to be "really a man inside". So deeply depressing. Such a backwards step.