Polyamory

[HelpMeRhondaYeah]

So Willow Smith says she's polyamorous.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-56852099

My first thought about these labels is that they always seem driven by males. But in this case, I wondered whether possibly polyamory actually does benefit women more... evolutionarily, this isn't ideal for men in all ways - they can't know a child is going to be theirs (so allocate resources accordingly). Also, it's women, not men, who get more sexually bored by monogamy. I'm sure this has been covered before, but I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts.

[lazylinguist]

I'm just wondering when Newsbeat decided to focus so much on celebrities and whom they like having sex with tbh.

[LadybirdDaphne]

I don’t think polyamory is necessarily driven by males. After all, monogamy is aligned with the patriarchy in that it reinforces men’s ‘right’ to control women to ensure paternity. It’s possible that monogamy became the rule with the discovery of agriculture - because then there started to be a surplus of wealth that men wanted to ensure was passed down to a legitimate son. This is a controversial reading of prehistory and much debated, but it’s certainly a possibly. The book Sex at Dawn explores these ideas (I know it’s a book that has been criticised by some academics and it should definitely be read with a critical mind).

[WorkingItOutAsIGo]

I cannot quite believe we are in a world where ‘I like to sleep around’ is a) a news story and b) an identity one needs to announce to the world.

I am sure it is an identity which means she is subject to huge amounts of oppression. (As if being black and female weren’t enough already, so on that point I am sympathetic).

No doubt my comment could be seen to be polyphobic. My bad.

[lazylinguist]

Well quite, WorkingItOutAsIGo.

[Forgotthebins]

Exactly WorkingitoutasIgo. I guess every generation thinks they are the first to discover sex.

I have yet to see any of these articles explain how you juggle polyamory with kids, full-time jobs and caring for elderly relatives, especially if you’re commuting. I’m glad the young ‘uns are having fun though!

[HelpMeRhondaYeah]

Very true, @WorkingItOutAsIGo. We could certainly do without more bullshit identity labels.

Haha, @Forgotthebins, could a dedicated Polyamor fit some polyamory in on the commute? Not sure how it would fit with covid travel regulations, though.

[LibertyMole]

A global pandemic is not great time to be in a polycule.

[Forgotthebins]

Haha HelpmeRhonda “Commuting” did sound weirdly exotic and exciting as I wrote it!

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

I have yet to see any of these articles explain how you juggle polyamory with kids, full-time jobs and caring for elderly relatives, especially if you’re commuting.

I've been involved in poly relationships for a while and this is one of the benefits imo.
It makes it much easier to set up more unconventional and flexible relationship structures that don't require the energy or commitment of a 'full time boyfriend/husband' while getting a lot of the benefits.
That said, the poly community can be incredibly up its own arse at times.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

It makes it much easier to set up more unconventional and flexible relationship structures that don't require the energy or commitment of a 'full time boyfriend/husband' while getting a lot of the benefits.
That said, the poly community can be incredibly up its own arse at times.

I have several acquaintances in polyamorous relationships. However, a number of them are married to one partner, have 'commitment ceremonies' with other partners - and then there are what would be counted as ONS partners as well.

Some of the additional caring benefits are obvious - in other ways, it all feels very performative and it's sometimes distressing for the children when there are ONS people sloping around whom they don't recognise (they do recognise the married partner and partners with whom there's a longer-term commitment whether or not there's been a commitment ceremony).

[BodyMovin]

My first thought was that in my teens and early twenties, everything about sex and outward presentation that earns you a special label today, we were doing. We did have labels of course but they were more to do with taste in music and way way way less prescriptive.

However there was loads of sexual assault, eating disorders etc so hardly perfect times.

In my head I can see the logic of this approach although it's probably not for me as my partner relationships tend to be quite intense. What puts me off the idea is usually whenever I watch programs about it tbh! It seems so akin to an earnest belief in gender identities and 100 sexualities and kink in terms of the rules and the boxes. It just comes across as extremely fussy and un-sexy! The other off-putting thing from the poly relationships featured in TV programs (Louis Theroux?) is to an outsider it often seems painfully obvious that one of the participants is not into it but doesn't want to lose their partner. A lot of the statements about being so happy when their partner is off shagging another partner come across as trying to convince themselves as much as anything.

However I'd really love to hear from someone who has actually experienced poly relationships turtles? I am very aware that monogamy is flawed and I am not certain I'd do it again if I split with my current partner.

[justawoman]

Yeah, many years ago when I was young and insecure I got myself into one of these set-ups: I (a lesbian) was desperately in love with an older bi woman and would to anything to try and keep her, including agreeing to a ‘polyamorous’ relationship in which we were both allowed to shag anyone else we chose. She ended up finding another woman and leaving me for her, after breaking my heart by having subsidiary relationships with another woman and a man, and I, well, just couldn’t find anyone I wanted who wasn’t her, so was exclusive from my perspective. I got quite badly hurt but have always been reasonably philosophical about it: the only person lying was me when I said I wanted to be polyamorous; actually I just wanted her. She was always clear with me that she didn’t want exclusivity. Even so, there was a level of power play in the relationship that I think she secretly enjoyed. I would not do it again.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Been there and done that. I'd take it over marriage any day for all the reasons daphne mentions but prefer autonomy to anything.

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

What puts me off the idea is usually whenever I watch programs about it tbh! It seems so akin to an earnest belief in gender identities and 100 sexualities and kink in terms of the rules and the boxes. It just comes across as extremely fussy and un-sexy! The other off-putting thing from the poly relationships featured in TV programs (Louis Theroux?) is to an outsider it often seems painfully obvious that one of the participants is not into it but doesn't want to lose their partner.

I could write a book on the problems within poly communities, despite practicing it myself.
The main issue (I think) is that there's a smug belief amongst a lot of poly people that polyamory is the superior way of doing things and that those who don't want to are somehow just too conservative or need 'educating' or don't understand.
This is clearly daft because anyone with half a brain can see that monogamy clearly works well for huge numbers of people.
I'm in a few relationship anarchy groups on FB and I'm always tickled by the strong authoritarian bent to them.
There are an awful lot of 'anarchists' turning up to post that everyone else should be doing relationships according to their own very personal and occasionally batshit rules.
I think if you are interested in doing it you need to have very strong boundaries and be able to advocate for yourself quite clearly.
Doing it just because someone else wants to is always going to be a bad idea (same with anything sex-related, really).
Someone mentioned children as above, and I do think a lot of people are deeply irresponsible about how they behave with poly relationships around them, although you could say the same for mono relationships too.
That said, it can be great. If you can find partner(s) who aren't total dingbats, you can have all the autonomy, freedom and space of being single and also get affection, love, sex and support of a long term relationship.

[crunchermuncher]

What's ONS? It means office of national statistics to me, but I can't see that being relevant (unless they're doing some analysis on non monogamous relationships)!

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

ONS = One Night Stand

[crunchermuncher]

(Facepalm)

[Howzaboutye]

Sounds like a great way to get and pass diseases!

[lazylinguist]

I just find it a bit odd that people want to organise their life around the desire to have multiple sexual partners tbh. It seems so unnecessarily complicated.

If I weren't happily married with dc and if I wanted autonomy and variety, I'd remain steadfastly single with a succession of no-strings-attached casual partners, not embroil myself in multiple concurrent romantic relationships. It sounds like my idea of hell tbh! It's hard enough to find one person you actually want to be in a proper relationship with, never mind lots!

[Thingybob]

Is there a large poly community? I can honestly say that I have never met anyone who has been openly poly and can only think of two acquaintances, out of thousands of people I must have met in my life, who said they were members of the swinging scene.

Is being poly a class thing?

[aweegc]

The Smith kids (and parents) see very intent on letting us know just how special and unique they are. Evolved even.

I guess Willow might get rather shock seeing a thread by a bunch of Mumsnetters saying "Did that before you (were born)." 😂

And YY to the poster asking why it's on Newsbeat. I don't see how this story is even newsworthy on a quiet day!

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

Is there a large poly community?

I think its partly class but also geographical. I think its very 'in' at the moment along students and in particular areas. I imagine it's pretty predominant in Brighton for example.
I would classify swinging as something else entirely. That's more about multiple sexual partners while I'd say polyamory is more about non-traditional relationship structures.

[Forgotthebins]

JustTurtles in your experience do they seem to be equal for men and women? Based on the one poly setup I know in real life, I just saw the woman being set up to hold the baby while the men had a wonderful time. I don’t know if my perception was true btw, I didn’t really know her well enough to ask how she felt but I read some FB posts that seemed a bit sad. I’m all for people living how they want, and it’s not something I would want for myself, but I am interested in whether 21st century poly actually sets women free or it’s just same old, same old.

[CargoShortsAndSlippers]

I considered this for a brief period, but the man I was chatting to told me a harrowing tale of his wife experiencing a traumatic miscarriage, not knowing which of the 3 possible men was the father, her favourite second or whatever the phrase is (who was like an uncle to the main couple's 2 children) freaked out, his other female partner encouraged him to back out of the family dynamic and the miscarrying woman was distraught.

I was not keen to insert myself into something like that.

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

It very much depends tbh. I think a lot of men do go into it thinking its about having no strings attached sex with multiple women and try to shame their girlfriends if they're not being 'supportive', but I don't think they have a lot of luck with it.
The idea is meant to be that you find a relationship structure that works for you and the other individuals particular circumstances and preferences, so if you're doing it right, then yes, I think it can be great for women.
For me, I'm currently only seeing one man but he's seeing another woman too. On the surface of it, that sounds like he's got it made but both of us are single mothers, have our own homes, jobs and lives and autonomy. I don't have time, nor want to, integrate a full time boyfriend into my life. I see him when DS is at his dad and when I do have DS, I don't have to worry about my son needing to share his space or vie for my attention, or worry that I'm completely neglecting my relationship for half the week.
All three of us get a lot more space and autonomy to do what we want with our lives.
At one point I was seeing a married man whose wife was bisexual, and that allowed her to also have a girlfriend and express that side of herself.
I know most bisexual people are more than satisfied being monogamous (before someone calls me out on that) but for us, I'd usually have date night with him when she'd have date night with her girlfriend and it worked great for all of us.
It's really all about individual circumstances and wants and trying to find a way that works for everyone.
Personally, I'm only happy to have a non-mono relationship where my partner's partner wants to be poly. The examples upthread where someone is only doing it because their partner wants to would be an absolute 'no' for me. It all has to be open, honest and wanted.