Literal stage violence

[AvocadoBathroom]

twitter.com/TheStage/status/1385194695274418181?s=20

"What you do when you cast a cis man – put him in a dress, and label him as trans – is you let violence happen to a transgender woman in the future. A member of your audience will see a man in a dress, read your programme, and will think: ‘Haha, that’s a man in a dress’, and you are allowing that violence."

If this is the case then drag is transphobic right unless it's a trans person dressing up as the opposite sex? And so are pantomime dames? Someone needs to complain asap to Drag Race and get that show canceled immediately because for years it has cis men dressing as women for the entertainment and laughs. Some of those men will be gay but they MUST say they are women now or they shouldn't be allowed to dress as women for cheap laughs and fabulous Mac makeup?

[SunsetBeetch]

Oh sweet jesus. "Violence".

I suspect the propensity towards violence of theatre-goers, particularly those who watch shows with LGBT themes/actors in them, is pretty low. And I doubt homophobes or transphobes are all that interested in theatre.

[SmokedDuck]

Dumb, but I see it as part and parcel of the larger issue of casting at the moment.

Weirdly it is totally split - either you should be all for blind casting or people are supposed to stay right in their boxes. Someone freaked out at me the other day at AIBU when I suggested that "ethnic" actors might not be thankful if they were limited to only playing people of their own ethnicity.

But that is how things are these days.

[AgnesNaismith]

So men dressing up as women aren’t happy that men are dressing up as women but look like trans-women? Because it’s evidence that trans-women aren’t women?

Wish they’d all just stop obsessing over us.

media.tenor.com/images/5c4adf1fb2a0a0b547dcd4ea07374106/tenor.gif

[AgnesNaismith]

Ah man, my Regina George gif didn’t work.

[risefromyourgrave]

Today I saw this casting call for someone who can authentically play a 14 year old transgender girl. So I will be interested to see what the character sounds like when the film comes to a screen....

[BraveBananaBadge]

It's a discussion worth having and listening to the experience of the minorities in question, of course - you regularly see the same with regards to disabled roles and gay roles.

But again, it's the language. 'Turn away shows' - whole entire productions! Punish them, stop them and all associated with them from working, and making a living for not doing it our way. You don't see this from any other group asking to be heard and it's telling.

Admittedly I can't log in to The Stage's website right now so haven't read it all so am prepared to stand corrected. But based on the wording of the headline alone, it only sounds the usual alarms.

[SunsetBeetch]

Yes, Brave, the hyperbole is so offputting. Why can't we have sensible discussions about this?

[PaleBlueMoonlight]

Would a transvestite be acceptable? A man who dresses up in women’s clothes because he likes to in his spare time and who is classified as transgender (Stonewall umbrella) but doesn’t call himself a woman, as opposed to a man who dresses up in women’s clothes for a professional acting role.

[MedusasBrandyButter]

This is only going to lead to lead to a chilling effect on experimentation and casting in theatre. Can't get it "right"? Is it a risk work taking?

After the financial destruction wrought by the Covid shutdown, can theatres and other venues even afford to "turn away shows"?

[PaterPower]

And would the person have to be “out” in public?

How would anyone know it the actor only liked “Doris” to appear at home, in the privacy of their bedroom?

[WoolOfBat]

Pater that is such a good point. By forcing theatres only to cast openly transgender people in transgender roles, they are actually forcing transgender people to out themselves before they are ready if they want the role. That is quite insensitive.

[BraveBananaBadge]

Having read the letter now, it makes even less sense. This is an absolute doozy:

[Helias]

"What you do when you cast a cis man – put him in a dress, and label him as trans – is you let violence happen to a transgender woman in the future. A member of your audience will see a man in a dress, read your programme, and will think: ‘Haha, that’s a man in a dress’, and you are allowing that violence."

Is this implying that the transphobic member of the audience will initially be absolutely fine with anyone in a dress no matter how they look, but then look at the proramme and see that the actor (gender neutral term incorporating actress) is called James, and suddenly want to beat people up? What if the actor has a traditionally gender-neutral name? And what about women called James? If we put Danielle Muscato in a dress to appear on stage (she would not normally wear one) will no transphobes have any issues, because her name is Danielle? I think more thought might be needed.

[StellaAndCrow]

I wonder what they would feel as a woman playing the part of a transwoman? Would they use the same argument of "haha it's a woman in a dress"?
I think having a woman play a transwoman in Coronation Street was hugely beneficial to the trans movement. Many people will still think of Hayley from Coronation Street when they hear the term transwoman, and Hayley was of course a woman.

[AvocadoBathroom]

@SmokedDuck

Dumb, but I see it as part and parcel of the larger issue of casting at the moment.

Weirdly it is totally split - either you should be all for blind casting or people are supposed to stay right in their boxes. Someone freaked out at me the other day at AIBU when I suggested that "ethnic" actors might not be thankful if they were limited to only playing people of their own ethnicity.

But that is how things are these days.

I agree with you - and I am an ethnic minority. It's back in your box for us again.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Who is it by?

[BraveBananaBadge]

Here's the signatories (and their rather revealing parting shot).

Unsurprisingly, Tabby was one of the people leading the charge to get everyone to cancel James Dreyfus the other month IIRC.

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

@Helias

"What you do when you cast a cis man – put him in a dress, and label him as trans – is you let violence happen to a transgender woman in the future. A member of your audience will see a man in a dress, read your programme, and will think: ‘Haha, that’s a man in a dress’, and you are allowing that violence."

Is this implying that the transphobic member of the audience will initially be absolutely fine with anyone in a dress no matter how they look, but then look at the proramme and see that the actor (gender neutral term incorporating actress) is called James, and suddenly want to beat people up? What if the actor has a traditionally gender-neutral name? And what about women called James? If we put Danielle Muscato in a dress to appear on stage (she would not normally wear one) will no transphobes have any issues, because her name is Danielle? I think more thought might be needed.

Not literal violence.

They mean that not respecting someone's gender identity inside your own head is metaphorical violence, and they think that some casting decisions will encourage viewers down that path.

It's twitterese.

[allmywhat]

Is this implying that the transphobic member of the audience will initially be absolutely fine with anyone in a dress no matter how they look, but then look at the proramme and see that the actor (gender neutral term incorporating actress) is called James, and suddenly want to beat people up?

In my understanding the transphobic audience member isn’t actually beating anyone up but just thinking objectionable thoughts, which are of course violence.

It’s all nonsense really isn’t it? It’s just a bunch of flaily tantrum words. I think the tantrum trigger in this case is anger that a man in a dress doesn’t look any different than a transwoman in a dress. And the goal of all this absolute horseshit they’re talking is to try and make that into someone else’s problem.

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

@BraveBananaBadge

Here's the signatories (and their rather revealing parting shot).

Unsurprisingly, Tabby was one of the people leading the charge to get everyone to cancel James Dreyfus the other month IIRC.

Was Tabby Lamb formerly known as Teddy Lamb?

[SunsetBeetch]

Was Tabby Lamb formerly known as Teddy Lamb?

Looks like it, yes.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

They mean that not respecting someone's gender identity inside your own head is metaphorical violence,

I've never found it (possibly a deletion) but 2 to 3 years ago there was a thread about diversity training (possibly recorded or reported by someone) with some interesting observations by the trainer. The trainer claimed to be able to detect when people might be using the 'right words' and respecting pronouns etc. but still enacting violence through wrong think inside their heads.

[HopeClearwater]

The trainer claimed to be able to detect when people might be using the 'right words' and respecting pronouns etc. but still enacting violence through wrong think inside their heads.

Let me guess - all the people the trainer detected enacting violence inside their heads were women...

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

@SunsetBeetch

Was Tabby Lamb formerly known as Teddy Lamb?

Looks like it, yes.

Must be. I've found this, which is credited to Tabby Lamb at the bottom, but credited to Teddy Lamb at the bottom.

uk.news.yahoo.com/non-binary-pronouns-language-050000474.html

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

Above link is interesting, but it would be unwise to divert the the thread by discussing our reactions here.