Caroline Nokes (Chair WESC) Thought She Would Agree With the Feminists But Realised She Doesn't and We All Need to be Kind.

(66 Posts)
gardenbird48 Thu 25-Mar-21 11:48:28

So Caroline, the Chair of the Women & Equalities Select Committee thought that she would have agreed with the feminist (gc) view on this issue, but then realised that actually she doesn't and we need to budge over and stop worrying about being called pregnant people and stop dragging it down to the lowest common denominator, 'you know, the one example they can find of a transwoman who's attacked someone' hmm

Trans rights are a major part of the remit of Nokes and her committee, which is currently undertaking the inquiry into the government’s response to Gender Recognition Act reform. (May’s government held a long consultation on updating the GRA and committed to introducing those reforms, which were later shelved by Johnson’s administration.) The committee hearings are extraordinarily sensitive, empathetic and detailed sessions with some of the leading figures on both sides of this debate, one of the most bitter in the current political landscape.

Nokes, in ways that largely go unnoticed, quietly encourages a lot of support and kindness towards trans people. I put this to her and she is clearly pleased that someone has noticed. “I think it was when we were doing the domestic abuse bill something really struck me about domestic abuse statistics for trans people,” she says: “they’re tiny in number, I absolutely acknowledge that, but as a proportion it’s much bigger.”

“These are people who have the worst experience of the health service, they, as young people, have a really rough time in education, they then end up in a relationship where they’re the victim of domestic abuse. You sort of look at it and think we have to make the system kinder to trans people, and instead of focusing on having a massive row about what constitutes a woman, and whether we’re going to refer to a pregnant person as a woman or not, can we not please just be a little bit kinder to people and work out how we can make life easier for trans people?”

“When we’ve become so much more tolerant about so many aspects of life, it just seems to be really, really awful that we can’t be more understanding, and everybody the whole time wants to drag it back to sort of the lowest common denominator and to wheel out, you know, the one example they can find of a trans woman who’s attacked someone. Please, you know, we can be kinder than that. We can be nicer than that.”

Some of those in public life making the kinds of arguments Nokes cites are squarely in her own demographic: women of a similar age and social status. (Although in general, women are more likely to be supportive of trans rights than men.) Does she ponder how she has reached a different conclusion to many people similar to her?

“Yeah, I do, and interestingly at some of the some of the GRA evidence sessions, I’ve gone into them with a sort of a preconceived view of, you know, my heart is with the 45-year-old feminist. Absolutely, you know, I’m going to agree with her. And then I sit and listen and I go ‘You know what, I just don’t agree with you.’ I think that’s good for me. It makes me challenge my thoughts, my views. That’s so important in life.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/03/caroline-nokes-i-worry-conservatives-are-slipping-backwards-being-narrow-minded

OP’s posts: |
NecessaryScene1 Thu 25-Mar-21 11:53:14

Hmm, how's about:

These are people who have the worst experience of the health service, they, as young people, have a really rough time in education, they then end up in a relationship where they’re the victim of domestic abuse. You sort of look at it and think we have to make the system kinder to women, and instead of focusing on having a massive row about what constitutes a woman, and whether we’re going to refer to a pregnant person as a woman or not, can we not please just be a little bit kinder to people and work out how we can make life easier for women?”

Just a thought.

BlackWaveComing Thu 25-Mar-21 11:54:34

Kindness towards girls and women - an idea whose time will never come.

Kit19 Thu 25-Mar-21 11:56:17

hahahahah like hell did she think she'd agree with GC on this. Its such a classic tactic

"I thought I'd be on their side but they're just so meaaan and nasty and I'm kiiiinnndddd so KIIIIIINNNDDD why cant everyone just beeeee kiiiiiiiind"

because when you're kind and you dont ask difficult questions, you get AK happening

TheBuffster Thu 25-Mar-21 12:09:27

Are you very kind, kind, fairly kind or not at all kind?

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark Thu 25-Mar-21 12:18:39

The honest version:

You sort of look at it and think we have to make the system kinder to male people, and instead of focusing on having a massive row about women’s rights and needs and whether we’re going to give a shit about women or not, can we not please just be a little bit kinder to male people and work out how we can make life easier for male people?

ConservativesForWomen Thu 25-Mar-21 12:24:24

Needless to say, we are not big fans....

"Then, a phrase that leaves you hoping that the journalist has simply done a hatchet job on Nokes. "We’re going to get hung up on things like the Tavistock clinic."
This is the Tavistock Clinic where gender-dysphoric children were, till recently, treated with experimental drugs that left them sterile and without adult sexual function. The Tavistock, which the Care Quality Commission rated as inadequate. "

www.conservativesforwomen.org/caroline-nokes-mp-reveals-a-lack-of-intellectual-seriousness-about-women-s-rights

Advertisement

SunsetBeetch Thu 25-Mar-21 12:27:38

Fancy getting hung up on things like protecting children. How unkind.

gardenbird48 Thu 25-Mar-21 12:28:17

ConservativesForWomen

Needless to say, we are not big fans....

"Then, a phrase that leaves you hoping that the journalist has simply done a hatchet job on Nokes. "We’re going to get hung up on things like the Tavistock clinic."
This is the Tavistock Clinic where gender-dysphoric children were, till recently, treated with experimental drugs that left them sterile and without adult sexual function. The Tavistock, which the Care Quality Commission rated as inadequate. "

www.conservativesforwomen.org/caroline-nokes-mp-reveals-a-lack-of-intellectual-seriousness-about-women-s-rights

I'm not surprised you are not CFP - I'm definitely not.

Does she not read the newspapers? Her lack of understanding of current affairs relating to an area that she claims is a major part of her remit (trans issues) is concerning, both for them and us.

OP’s posts: |
TheRabbitOfCaerbannog Thu 25-Mar-21 12:30:59

She nailed her colours to the mast some time ago. I don't buy this attempt to suggest she was open minded about this to begin with at all. Monstrous regiment of women with views about their own rights just need to pipe down, why won't just do what they're supposed to do and look after everyone. V challenging for her to compute I imagine.

TheRabbitOfCaerbannog Thu 25-Mar-21 12:33:56

ConservativesForWomen

Needless to say, we are not big fans....

"Then, a phrase that leaves you hoping that the journalist has simply done a hatchet job on Nokes. "We’re going to get hung up on things like the Tavistock clinic."
This is the Tavistock Clinic where gender-dysphoric children were, till recently, treated with experimental drugs that left them sterile and without adult sexual function. The Tavistock, which the Care Quality Commission rated as inadequate. "

https://www.conservativesforwomen.org/caroline-nokes-mp-reveals-a-lack-of-intellectual-seriousness-about-women-s-rights


Excellent blog CFW

TeenMinusTests Thu 25-Mar-21 12:37:44

She's my MP. sad

gardenbird48 Thu 25-Mar-21 12:39:11

*CFW !

OP’s posts: |
Ereshkigalangcleg Thu 25-Mar-21 12:57:32

Dreadful woman in the Maria Miller mould. Why does WESC get such terrible female leaders who don't focus on women? What do they think their committee is supposed to do?

Ereshkigalangcleg Thu 25-Mar-21 12:58:23

hahahahah like hell did she think she'd agree with GC on this. Its such a classic tactic

"^I thought I'd be on their side but they're just so meaaan and nasty and I'm kiiiinnndddd so KIIIIIINNNDDD why cant everyone just beeeee kiiiiiiiind"^

Exactly.

NecessaryScene1 Thu 25-Mar-21 13:00:39

Show me a way people never talk about transwomen:

I thought I'd be on their side but they're just so meaaan and nasty and I'm kiiiinnndddd so KIIIIIINNNDDD why cant everyone just beeeee kiiiiiiiind"

ArabellaScott Thu 25-Mar-21 13:04:59

Caroline, No.

littlbrowndog Thu 25-Mar-21 13:08:13

TheBuffster

Are you very kind, kind, fairly kind or not at all kind?

Can’t decide

😉

Floisme Thu 25-Mar-21 13:19:17

Trans rights are a major part of the remit of Nokes and her committee,

Why? I thought their remit was women?

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud Thu 25-Mar-21 13:20:22

"“Every conversation I have with the Chancellor starts with: ‘We can’t continue to implement policies that alienate women,’” she tells me. “And we have to make sure that what we’re doing, whether it comes to childcare, whether it comes to female employment opportunities, whatever it is, that it actually makes women’s lives better.” It’s an important moral case, she adds, but also an electoral one. “There’s a really obvious problem for the Conservative Party, which is not a secret, and it has been displayed at successive elections, is that you cannot, you absolutely cannot hope to win elections if you don’t have the female vote.”

I have Magdalene burn's voice in my head now saying "they have got to be trolling now"

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud Thu 25-Mar-21 13:21:03

Although I do like that she wants to improve childcare, that is good

PaleBlueMoonlight Thu 25-Mar-21 13:22:33

Floisme

^Trans rights are a major part of the remit of Nokes and her committee,^

Why? I thought their remit was women?

It is the women and equalities committee

Ereshkigalangcleg Thu 25-Mar-21 13:22:38

Every conversation I have with the *Chancellor*^ starts with^

I read that as the failed Green politician! confusedgrin

Scepticaltank Thu 25-Mar-21 13:33:55

I think she overlooks her own sexism. When she chaired the first evidence meeting she couldn't even be bothered to use the women's titles when introducing them.

ArabellaScott Thu 25-Mar-21 13:41:54

It is the women and equalities committee

it's the be kind and be quiet committee

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