Intro to GC?

[loretta81]

The concept of GC is totally new to me.

Who are the key feminists to read who hold this view?

Do you think GC is the "mainstream" feminist view in the UK?

What would you say are the characteristics of people who hold this view? Eg age, education, etc.

Thanks so much, I'm really intrigued.

[loretta81]

I ask Q 3 because I'm in my 30s, have kids, am educated and not really exposed to this. I'm wondering if that's unusual!

[AgnesNaismith]

[loretta81]

I'm just looking for some pointers so I can learn more about it. Thanks.

[334bu]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

[DickKerrLadies]

I can't really answer your questions but I will tell you what 'GC' means to me.

I've been critical of gender as a concept since before I even knew what it was, before I'd heard of feminists. Being told something wasn't ladylike. Being grouped with the girls who I wasn't friends with rather than the boys I was. Wondering why a boy being told he runs like a girl seemed to be an insult. And etc. etc. as I got older. And all just because I happened to be born female

Personally, I don't really understand a feminism that isn't critical of gender. To me, feminism is about getting rid of the boxes and chains that have been used to oppress us, not embracing them.

Mainstream view? Depressingly, I think there are still a great deal of people who believe in gender. Some men feel very strongly about their 'masculinity'.

[loretta81]

Super useful, both of you, thank you very much.

[SapphosRock]

Who are the key feminists to read who hold this view?

Julie Bindel, Kathleen Stock, Julia Long and the journalist Hadley Freeman are my personal favorites

Do you think GC is the "mainstream" feminist view in the UK?

I don't think many feminists centre their feminism specifically around being GC.
Most (but not all) radical feminists are GC. Most (but not all) liberal feminists are not GC.

What would you say are the characteristics of people who hold this view? Eg age, education, etc.

Generally left wing, uni educated, 35+ but that's a big generalisation.

Fair Play for Women is a good place to start research.

[loretta81]

Thanks, will have a look at that group and the writers you suggest.

[notyourhandmaid]

'Gender critical feminism' is basically... 'feminism' as far as I can see.

[BoeotianNightmare]

Following.i hadn't heard of most of the writers you listed so thanks! Big fan of Julie Bindel though.

[ArabellaScott]

@notyourhandmaid

'Gender critical feminism' is basically... 'feminism' as far as I can see.

This precisely.

I think feminism is gender critical - it is questioning and sometimes dismantling gender stereotypes.

[Skyliner001]

I'm a feminist but not GC 😊

[TheBuffster]

Oxymoron.

[zzizzer]

"I'm a feminist but don't believe in biological sex" is one of the funnier viewpoints to have come out of this whole thing.

[Skyliner001]

😘

[FemaleAndLearning]

Like others I am critical of gender stereotypes. I want to fight to protect women and girl's rights. I'm interested in what is bring taught in schools so I read Safe Schools Alliance and Transgender Trend. I started with Fair Play for Women and Woman's Place UK. I attended a Woman's place UK Meeting which was fantastic and went to the pub with Dr Nic Williams from FPFW, very down to earth, objective and a
scientist.

[Jenala]

I think this is a fantastic and balanced article from Kathleen Stock that looks at both 'sides' really well in terms of what the crux of the differing viewpoints are. A great starting point to understanding the core of the debate. It would be a wonderful world if articles like that actually opened more minds and allowed a real debate. The irony that both groups purport to want to end prescriptive roles but completely come at differently is interesting and also kind of saddening. While I personally just can't for the life of me follow the logic of the TRA (or non GC feminist) viewpoint, the article helped me understand where it comes from, even if from my perspective the TRA approach serves only to put people in ever more confined boxes.

[loretta81]

Finding some of what I'm reading challenging but glad to know more, thanks again to all of you.

[TheRabbitOfCaerbannog]

Here are some useful articles from Rebecca Reilly-Cooper:

Gender is not a spectrum
The idea that ‘gender is a spectrum’ is supposed to set us free. But it is both illogical and politically troubling

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Some questions to ask yourself:

medium.com/@rebeccarc/some-basic-questions-about-sex-and-gender-for-progressives-92f9d3a0bb91

[WarriorN]

Gender critical isn't really an actual movement.

feminism, radical feminism, basic original feminism, has always been critical of stereotypes and the roles, labels and expectations given to women (and men) and that this is ultimately damaging.

Radical feminists have always been critical of gender.

I personally don't see it as a helpful phrase as it diverts from the feminist arguments.

[Thelnebriati]

Sex is biology.
Gender is a set of social rules imposed on people because of their sex.
The rules are used to place limits on women and girls.

Feminists have always said our sex shouldn't limit us - that gender isn't real. Feminism is gender critical by default.

[bourbonne]

I find it weird, to be honest, that this is seen as an exotic new movement. It's not as if feminists have historically thought it was just coincidence that female humans had certain problems that male humans didn't.

(Though I hear that the so-called Feminist Library now thinks it's bigoted and pointless to even enquire into the root causes of female oppression. It obviously just fell out of the sky and attached itself to those humans with ribbons in their hair and a sweet smile.)

The way I see it, it's the common-sense position that you are your body, your body is you, and the rest is societal. There seems to be a lot of disembodiment about these days.

[TheBuffster]

Great article.
^(Name)gender: ‘A gender that is best described by one’s name, good for those who aren’t sure what they identify as yet but definitely know that they aren’t cis … it can be used as a catch-all term or a specific identifier, eg, johngender, janegender, (your name here)gender, etc.’^

I love Buffgender. It really encapsulates me.

[AdHominemNonSequitur]

[quote TheRabbitOfCaerbannog]Here are some useful articles from Rebecca Reilly-Cooper:

Gender is not a spectrum
The idea that ‘gender is a spectrum’ is supposed to set us free. But it is both illogical and politically troubling

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Some questions to ask yourself:

medium.com/@rebeccarc/some-basic-questions-about-sex-and-gender-for-progressives-92f9d3a0bb91[/quote]
That article is just brilliant!

[Delphinium20]

I find it weird, to be honest, that this is seen as an exotic new movement. It's not as if feminists have historically thought it was just coincidence that female humans had certain problems that male humans didn't.

Exactly. Anytime in history when a woman has had to fight against established norms to live her life based on her own desires, skills, needs, etc., that is a woman who is critical of gender. I never heard the term GC until about a year ago. Yet, somehow for half a century, I've been GC, but I would have used different terms for it like feminism or women's rights or self-determination or "fuck off."