Help me respond to a captured hospital please!

(145 Posts)
timeforsheroes Fri 12-Mar-21 17:12:16

I've nc'd because I made the FOI request in my own name, and these people are also my employer shock

i asked for the EIAs on 'supporting gender transitioning at work' and 'transgender care' i.e. staff policy and patient policy. I asked what considerations were given to the PCs of sex and religion. I asked who was consulted re these documents, and what was done to ensure all stakeholders were consulted before the documents were approved.

This is the abridged reply: Relevant stakeholders were consulted, involving Trans staff, Encompass network and [local LGBT charity]. These documents were also discussed with management and staff side representatives.

The Trust is alert to the potential that a minority of colleagues or other patients may not understand Transgender rights and may use either their religion or their belief as being Trans Exclusionist Radical Feminists (TERFs) to object to the guidance. However these views are deemed to be transphobic. We have a duty to protect transgender patients and staff from discrimination harassment and victimisation and promote good relations between protected groups. We provide Trans Awareness training for staff to promote understanding to support implementation of these guidance documents.

Trans members of the LGBT+ staff network were invited to comment and consult on the documents by open invitation- to all staff on LGBT+ staff network circulation list were contacted

Both EIA checklist gender but not sex, and have 'positive' against gender reassignment and gender, and 'n/a' against all the other PCs. the patient policy EIA includes this gem:

If there is a negative impact on any of the groups, are you able to justify it, if so how? The Trust needs to be alert to the potential that a minority of colleagues or other patients may not understand Trans needs and may use either their religion or their belief as being Trans Exclusionist Radical Feminists (TERFs) to object to the guidance. These attitudes are deemed to be transphobic and based on misunderstanding. The rights of one group are not allowed to impede the human rights of another protected group. As the guidance states, any transphobic abuse from staff or other patients and families must be submitted through incident reporting, as this is a possible hate crime. Staff will be subject to a disciplinary procedure.

shock angry shock

i feel like I've been punched. This is my employer. And the hospital I and my DC and my mum would be taken to if we get ill. Please help me to respond, I'm so gutted they approved this crap, and replied like this, I can't think straight.

OP’s posts: |
MrsWooster Fri 12-Mar-21 17:18:12

Fucking he’ll that’s appalling. I haven’t any practical advice other than follow Claire Dimyon (who was similarly accused by a hospital down south, iirc) on twitter (if she still is?) and look at Fair Play for Women for template letters etc?

FlyPassed Fri 12-Mar-21 17:20:10

Wow, just wow! That is an absolutely horrendous response. I'm not sure which is the worst bit, perhaps that they feel so safe on this worldview that they are happy for this to be on the public record.

Bumping in the hope someone who can help will see.

Delphinium20 Fri 12-Mar-21 17:26:16

I can't believe they 1. Didn't consult women. 2. Assume anyone uncomfortable with the opposite sex is either religious or falls under a "belief" group of "TERFS"

If they'd done #1, they'd not leapt to #2

PaleBlueMoonlight Fri 12-Mar-21 17:27:01

I am not sure that I have seen one quite that bad.

Collidascope Fri 12-Mar-21 17:27:23

Jesus, I'd be spitting. No practical advice either, I'm sorry, but they've definitely been remiss regarding sex and religion and I really hope you find a way to challenge it. The absolute stunning arrogance of that reply.

MazekeenSmith Fri 12-Mar-21 17:28:29

Oh my god

Advertisement

Aha85 Fri 12-Mar-21 17:33:38

You might want to wait until the prison JR judgment is out in a couple of months' time. Hopefully if we win there will be some stuff in there about the need to protect vulnerable women.

The PSED is not a "one-off" duty so there might be a need to carry out a new EIA - see Griffiths v Secretary of State for Justice (Equality and Human Rights Commission intervening) [2013] EHWC 4077 (Admin)

ColourMagic Fri 12-Mar-21 17:34:06

They cannot "promote good relations between protected groups." when the ONLY Protected group being protected in this policy is 'Trans' - which Is NOT a protected Group under the 2010 Equality Act.

'Gender Reassignment' is a protected characteristic under EA 2010.

ColourMagic Fri 12-Mar-21 17:35:36

I bloody hope I will never have to be treated in/admitted to that hospital .... which hospital is it?

Aha85 Fri 12-Mar-21 17:35:52

Also this is just a plain misstatement of the law:
"The rights of one group are not allowed to impede the human rights of another protected group."

It doesn't look like they read/understood section 149.

Aha85 Fri 12-Mar-21 17:38:25

Also, if you're worried about your employment one of us could do a similar FOI and then send a complaint?

ColourMagic Fri 12-Mar-21 17:40:36

"The Trust is alert to the potential that a minority of colleagues or other patients may not understand Transgender rights and may use either their religion .... "

Religion or belief ARE protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010 .... 'Trans' is not a protected characteristic under that act.

timeforsheroes Fri 12-Mar-21 17:41:21

Thank you all. I'm still reeling - both that they did this, and that they've gone on the record about it. I thought it'd be crap, but I really didn't expect it to be this bad.

They only asked trans people.

The EIAs just say 'none' or 'n/a' re any of the other protected characteristics, except sex which of course has been replaced by gender and deemed to be positively impacted by these polices.

People with religious beliefs are wrong.

And I can be disciplined for objecting to any of this. My head is spinning.

OP’s posts: |
Evarish Fri 12-Mar-21 17:43:04

Delphinium20

I can't believe they 1. Didn't consult women. 2. Assume anyone uncomfortable with the opposite sex is either religious or falls under a "belief" group of "TERFS"

If they'd done #1, they'd not leapt to #2

Lol. Most cis women are perfectly fine or don't give a damn about trans women in women's spaces. The belief that because they don't cater to transphobic ideologies, they must not have spoken to any women, is ridiculous.

timeforsheroes Fri 12-Mar-21 17:46:13

Everish did you read my OP? They only asked trans staff and trans lobby groups!

OP’s posts: |
ColourMagic Fri 12-Mar-21 17:49:50

@Evarish wrote: ..... "Most cis women are perfectly fine or don't give a damn about trans women in women's spaces."

Who the hell are you to claim that? You didn't ask any women what we think/feel about having men in our safe spaces. We are Women ('cis' can go to hell, it is NOT our word).

I am a Woman and I don't want men in what should be a safe space of a women's hospital ward when I am sick and vulnerable.
.

titchy Fri 12-Mar-21 17:51:56

* The belief that because they don't cater to transphobic ideologies, they must not have spoken to any women, is ridiculous.*

Errr no that's because OP's very first post said that they stated they had not spoken to anyone other than trans people hmm

TheChild Fri 12-Mar-21 17:53:33

What research have you done to back up the assumption that most "cis" women don't care about transwomen in their single sex spaces? How many women did you ask?

What about religious women wjo are not able to share personal spaces with the opposite sex? Are they too transphobic due to their religion? You're not very tolerant, are you?

Eyjafjallajokulldottir Fri 12-Mar-21 17:54:16

@Evarish's first word is Lol. This is just a big joke to them. Don't feed the troll.

TheChild Fri 12-Mar-21 17:55:14

Just in case it wasn't unclear (although @Evarish is the only one throwing slurs around so far) that post was to you. Would LOVE to see the evidence to back up your claims 👍

334bu Fri 12-Mar-21 17:57:39

They actually used T***!!! " deemed to be transphobic"
Wow!
So much for for Public Sector Equality Duty

Manderleyagain Fri 12-Mar-21 17:58:02

That is so so so so bad. Realistically I think you need to pass it on to other people who are not employees to take it from there. Like a pp says, someone else can re-do the foi & make the complaint, or start whatever preceeding will force them to re-look at this.

What about contacting 'sex matters' the new campaign group run by naomi cunningham (barrister) Rebecca bull (discrimination lawyer) maya Forstater and Emma Hilton? I'm sure they could advise what the best next step is.

Delphinium20 Fri 12-Mar-21 17:59:23

Lol. Most cis women are perfectly fine or don't give a damn about trans women in women's spaces. The belief that because they don't cater to transphobic ideologies, they must not have spoken to any women, is ridiculous.

Well, I don't know how many "cis" women exist. You didn't read what I wrote. I wrote they didn't ask any women.

ColourMagic Fri 12-Mar-21 18:00:09

When I am in hospital it is for my health, my medical treatment. That hospital policy turns me into a conveniently manipulated object, existing purely to provide validation for the identities of certain other patients and staff.

I bloody well do not want to have to be treated in that hospital.
.

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in