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Any other BACP members on here?

(39 Posts)
lalawasthebestteletubby Mon 22-Feb-21 16:47:54

I've nc for this post, because my professional association is so fucking captured I can't not. I do hang around these parts, mostly lurking but post a bit.

I wrote to BACP when 'Captured' was published, after being chased several times they wrote back basically saying they weren't going to comment on it. Now I get home from work and find my Therapy Today on the doormat, with it's cover article 'Why pronouns matter'.

I've only skimmed it as it makes me too angry, but essentially it's a non binary therapist expecting their clients to 'enable me to be me at work ' i.e. use their preferred name and pronouns. A particular gem which caught my eye is 'I no longer engage in 'debates' around the existence of different identities. It's essential that my identity or that of a client/supervisee is simply respected, otherwise we get into the territory of fascist rhetoric masquerading as free speech'.

FUCKING WHAT?! You are the therapist, the client isn't there to validate you and your oh so special identity, why would a client even need to know your preferred pronouns, when would they be speaking about you to need them? IT'S NOT FUCKING MEANT TO BE ABOUT YOU angryangryangry

Sorry for the rant but honest to betsey I am so sick of this SHIT.

OP’s posts: |
samosamo Mon 22-Feb-21 17:39:09

I'm a clinical psych. Tbh my profession is not th seat of radical thinking, it's cookie cutter.

A lot of ' non-political' middle class, white, straight women. A lot of beung careful, sitting on the fence and not wanting to 'upset anyone, meanwhile failing our diverse communities.

Don't expect anything more, you'll be perpetually disappointed.

I so agree w you to an extent. The therapist can explain their preferred pronoun, but it's not the client's job to remember it. I personally couldn't care less if my clients forget my name, as long as they're making progress. Also it's part of the job to not be offended if a client unintentionally offends me during a session, for example calling me Mrs or talking about 'coloured people instead of black. It's a different thing, of course, if they intend to. But I do believe that's another matter entirely.

User987654321User Mon 22-Feb-21 17:48:05

Saw it. Read it. Ranted to my GC academic friend about it (I think she uses MN so might see me on here <wave>)

I felt exactly the same, it was all about the therapist not at all about the client. I've never seen such a breathtakingly self-centred article in there. I couldn't see beneficence anywhere in the article.

Also went to the website of the author who has a blog entry about the Keira Bell case with lots of handwringing about how terrible it is to deny children puberty blockers for gender dysphoria when they are prescribed to stop precocious puberty.

If I behaved like that I'd expect to be in breach of the ethical framework but they're being celebrated.

Also found the reference to making the toilets single sex interesting - the fact that they took care to explain that the two toilets are two standalone rooms. Because even in an article as self-centred as that one they took pains to admit that they wouldn't force (often vulnerable clients) into mixed sex shared facilities.

giletrouge Mon 22-Feb-21 17:48:06

Also it's part of the job to not be offended if a client unintentionally offends me during a session this with bells on. So therapists come in a 'highly narcissistic' variety now then? That's going to go well.
I'm retired; UKCP, not BACP, fyi.

SqueakyLittleAliens Mon 22-Feb-21 20:50:46

I'm clin psych too.

Work in training, on one of the courses, though.

A blend of the type of navel-gazing (with a definite smattering of full on narcissism) associated with clinical training, a very captured university, and a very captured NHS...

lalawasthebestteletubby Mon 22-Feb-21 21:43:34

Urgh I HATE it, I feel so powerless when the professional body which is supposed to represent me and champion best practice is pushing this fucking ideology. So fucking captured angry

OP’s posts: |
samosamo Mon 22-Feb-21 22:51:18

I haven't seen captured.


lalawasthebestteletubby Mon 22-Feb-21 23:14:50

OP’s posts: |
SqueakyLittleAliens Tue 23-Feb-21 00:52:47

There are so many bizarre things about it. I know CPs who are deeply critical of almost all psychiatric drug interventions and the medicalisation of distress, but who have done training with Gendered Intelligence and now resist even mild debate about giving puberty blockers to kids. People who don't believe in the concept of autism, but are fine with labeling (as transgender/men) and medicating, for life, young girls who have the social difficulties associated with the ASD label. I know psychologists who have delivered teaching on the psychological consequences of FGM, and yet will in effect deny the importance of sex in female oppression. I've run out of anger, and mainly watch in bemusement.

hoodathunkit Tue 23-Feb-21 11:15:31

Just bookmarking - I will post when I can as I have a lot to say on this issue

SingToTheSky Tue 23-Feb-21 11:42:42

I saw this on FB via a screenshot. I’m horrified. I’m not working in psychology yet, I’m about to start studying, so I hope you don’t mind me posting - I can just lurk after this. But I just wanted to say I’m really sorry you are facing this fucking awful barrier in work, as the people who are better placed than any to really unpick gender confusion/dysphoria. It makes me so angry. If these kids don’t have you all to help prevent them heading down this road, who do they have?!

I have many years to go but it scares me, especially as I am leaning towards some kind of specialism in autism or maybe trauma work. Both reasons why I was convinced I should be a boy for several years as a child.

MrsWinnicott Tue 23-Feb-21 12:31:10

UKCP rather than BACP, but in terms of caputure there's no difference.

I work in a university counselling service and the young women I see are being fucked over. They hate their bodies because they compare themselves to perfection on Instagram all day long; their porn-educated controlling boyfriends want anal and tell them they're frigid if they refuse; and the lesbians have disappeared because they're being shamed into identifying as men or non-binary.

I'm so disappointed in my profession for their moral cowardice in not challenging the nonsense that is gender identity ideology.

A lot of ' non-political' middle class, white, straight women. A lot of beung careful, sitting on the fence and not wanting to 'upset anyone, meanwhile failing our diverse communities.

samosamo I take issue with this. The profession is overwhelmingly white and middle-class and this is a problem. But it's not a problem that we are mostly women. Men could be therapists if they wanted to but they don't because the profession has been devalued as one of the 'caring professions'.

Landlockedgirl Tue 23-Feb-21 17:59:02

OP you have my sympathy. CP, took early retirement due to health issues. I recently heard from a colleague about the SW training she had to attend. There was zero discussion regarding the safeguarding of extremely vulnerable women on an inpatient ward. The entire training centred the needs of the trans person. My colleague is quite naive about these issues and asked a reasonable question but was shot down as her question was deemed transphobic. She was perplexed by the trainer’s response but quickly realised not to ask anything else. On hearing her account I felt relieved that my poor health had enabled me to dodge that bullet.

InvisibleDragon Tue 23-Feb-21 20:49:40

Ugh. I work in mental health and I've been unpleasantly surprised by the lack of critical thinking and, err, reflection? on this issue from the qualified Psychologists that I know.

SisterWendyBuckett Tue 23-Feb-21 21:04:14

* It's essential that my identity or that of a client/supervisee is simply respected, otherwise we get into the territory of fascist rhetoric masquerading as free speech'.*
If this isn't projection, I don't know what is.

Being gaslighted is extremely damaging to one's mental health.

The remedy, I find, is to go and read something by Marcus Evans, Dave Bell, Sue Evans or Heather Brunskell- Evans.

SisterWendyBuckett Tue 23-Feb-21 21:09:14

This will have its day. The overreach will be its downfall.

And there are an increasing number of therapists at all levels of the profession who see right through this and are joining together to say a big fat NO.

Please don't worry too much, OP.

alwayslucky Tue 23-Feb-21 21:11:11

On similar lines, I found it disturbingly unprofessional when a lesbian co-volunteer wore badges to inform the public, in effect, about what she did in bed. It was good she gave pro bono advice to them, but what possible reason could there be for forcing that personal information onto them?

lalawasthebestteletubby Tue 23-Feb-21 21:44:34

A day later, and I'm still as angry angry

I'd write to BACP and rip this fucking narcissistic shitshow to pieces, but I'd just be a hateful transphobe then wouldn't I? (And yes SisterWendy the projection in that sentence is knockout). I wonder what other identities I need to 'simply respect' in my work - maybe the overweight identity of an anorexic client, or the cured identity of a palliative client? Would BACP be happy if I did that? Fucking idiots, the lot of them, pandering to this obvious bollocks.

OP’s posts: |
SqueakyLittleAliens Tue 23-Feb-21 22:49:20


This will have its day. The overreach will be its downfall.

And there are an increasing number of therapists at all levels of the profession who see right through this and are joining together to say a big fat NO.

Please don't worry too much, OP.

This is good to hear, @SisterWendyBuckett.
Where are they joining together (if you can say?)? I don't know how to access others in the profession who want open critique of this.

SisterWendyBuckett Wed 24-Feb-21 06:58:20

squeakylittlealiens Some clinicians are meeting online to discuss issues in private, for obvious reasons.

A number of therapists are talking about things publicly - to one degree or another.

Therapists Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayed have a fantastic podcast - Gender A Wider Lens. This episode on Collective Collusion is great:

There was a recent online conference where like minded clinicians came together to discuss how this issue is affecting their practice. It also had a variety of other speakers who talked about related issues: "DO NOT ADJUST YOUR SET”: SEX,GENDER and PUBLIC POLICY.

The conference was recorded but I don't know if it's only available to ticket holders.

If you don't already, it's also worth following concerned practitioners on Twitter - the ones I've mentioned here and upthread plus Dr Az Maxwell Hazeem and Kirsty Entwistle. Sasha is Inspired Teen Therapy on Twitter.

All the associations are 'captured' and have signed the Memorandum of Understanding. But, once you know who has a wider perspective then I think you'll be able to start reaching out and making connections.

Good luck and thank you - it's so important that therapists are able to retain their critical thinking and uphold their training.

InvisibleDragon Wed 24-Feb-21 07:33:56

There's also BPSWatch, which is blogging and tweeting about poor governance at the BPS - including editorial interference on publications about sex and gender.

Skateosaurus Wed 24-Feb-21 10:22:14

This is something that really concerns me. I am currently studying for an MSc in Psychology. Several topics talk about the differences between male and female and they tend to call them both sex and gender.

I'm at a very woke university (only just discovered how woke when it was in the rest recently)and with it being an online course, the subjects of pronouns and gender have been avoided so far, but I really want to question the tutors on this.

However I am too scared of jeopardising my place or my marks if I out myself as GC, but I'm also 45 years old and know a bit about the world and biology and it annoys the heck out of me that I feel I am too scared to ask questions on a masters course!

SingToTheSky Wed 24-Feb-21 10:26:08

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SingToTheSky Wed 24-Feb-21 11:29:46

Ah. Deleted for wrong phrasing. Clean version: DSD is also doing a masters in psychology, and despite having a really good conversation about these issues back in 2019 where I was so happy she got it, she now seems to have been captured, and I’m gutted.

Skateosaurus Wed 24-Feb-21 12:04:00

@SingToTheSky I saw your original before it was pulled! grin

That's the good thing about doing the course as an older student, I am unlikely to be pulled into the 'be kind' scenarios.

I actually have a live discussion coming up on mental disorders and gender in the next few days. I am planning to take part, I'm just a bit worried about actually saying anything.

I have touched on it in a previous discussion where I discussed Maslow's Hierarchy of Need. How it is possible we are at the 'self actualisation' stage which is why identity and pronouns are playing such a prevalent part in people's lives. I made a small comment about if identity is your biggest worry then you're doing ok and someone else agreed that it seems like a privilege to be in a position to be concerned with identity. But the discussion came to an end soon after (time constraints) so I didn't get chance to follow up on it and it's very hard over Zoom anyway.

But its so worrying if it's coming from the affiliated bodies that these things are a thing!

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